Jessica Osborn [00:00:00]:
Do you ever experience any awkwardness when it comes to money? Asking for it, receiving it, spending it, even saving it. If there's something that you know that shows up consistently in your life in any of those situations, then you know that you've got a nervous system response or reaction when it comes to money. And why is that important? Well, as you know, money is the oxygen literally for your business. Without it, your business does not survive. So today's episode, we're diving into the topic around your nervous system and money. How the two are so connected and what you can do to remove any of those blocks that are currently and what you can do to remove any of those blocks currently present in your nervous system so that you can find money flows to you much more easily. Stay tuned. Skills coming right up now.
Jessica Osborn [00:01:03]:
My very special guest today is an expert in nervous system regulation and specifically when it comes to money. Eloise Tompkins is a psychologist turned money coach who helps women in business stop spiraling every time they try to level up. She's known for blending deep nervous system work with practical strategy. And she's the coach clients call women when the it should be working, stops working and when they're ready to make more money without burning out people pleasing or over delivering. Eloise has over a decade of experience helping women break through trauma, anxiety and emotional survival patterns. So she now is really focused on helping women feel safe and anchored and regulated at higher levels of income, visibility and leadership. You're going to love this conversation because it's a very genuine, very open and honest share with Eloise. Her approach is very raw and real and she doesn't hold back at all.
Jessica Osborn [00:02:13]:
Although all of her work is research based and very deeply human. She built her own business without the hustle, pressure or performance. And she loves to help her clients do the same. So without further ado, let me introduce her to you. Hello. Hello. So I'm here in the studio with Eloise Tompkins, who is a money coach, a psychologist, and a nervous system expert, especially when it comes to all things money. So welcome, Eloise.
Eloise Tompkins [00:02:52]:
Hello. So excited to be here and to talk money. It's my favorite topic. Oh, and nervous system as well. I like talking about that too.
Jessica Osborn [00:02:59]:
Yeah, of course. And you know, I think that this is why today's conversation I'm so interested to get into, because money and nervous system aren't usually two things that are connected. Like, we talk nervous system about so many things we talk money about, you know, in other ways and often just relating to our mind and what we're thinking about it, but I'm so interested to hear how, how you actually bring these two things together and what the connection is that probably most people out there are not aware of that connection. But before we do that, because I know we could just start and go, go, go ahead. Can you tell us please what you do in your business specifically, who do you help and how do you help them?
Eloise Tompkins [00:03:41]:
Such a good question. And we could like plunk straight into the middle of the ocean and start there when it comes to money. But I started my business because I know back in the day, or not even back in the day, like I remember when I was a kid, I'm going to take you back on a journey, Jess. I remember being just a kid and wanting money because I would see money as something that was thought about in the family home. We had enough, but never more than enough. Sometimes we didn't have enough. Like it was money was just this constant tension, this push, pull. And dad would hold on to money, wouldn't want to let it go.
Eloise Tompkins [00:04:21]:
Mum would want to, I guess, be the spender, not in an impulsive way, but you take us on holidays or to do fun stuff. And it was just this constant push, pull in their relation, their money relationship. And I remember thinking, oh, my gosh. And then I'd see all these TV shows and they're all these American TV shows with these kids living in these big gigantic houses. And I'm like, I want that. And my association with money kind of became, well, we don't have any other people do it's not for you. And I carried that story with me for such a long time. And then when I started my own business, I just wanted to help people.
Eloise Tompkins [00:05:07]:
I just wanted to help women step into themselves more. But what I was realizing is that they were having a lot of money blocks and money would come up. Every single networking event that I went to, Money. And I would talk, I would find myself talking about money and how frustrated I was about how women weren't making money. Most women in businesses don't hit six figures, let alone seven. That angered me so much. And so I guess that fueled my desire to want to help women because when I started exploring it just casually kind of at these networking events, I would see similar things playing out. A lot of, I guess waiting for other people to hand them permission to make money.
Eloise Tompkins [00:05:58]:
Well, I want to speak at this event, but they don't want to pay me. And they should be paying women speakers. And I'm like, well, if you want to be paid, ask for it. Oh, no, no, I can't do that. And so I was just starting to realize all of these blocks because obviously my psychology part kicked in and I saw things from a unique perspective and I'm like, wow, this is really fascinating. So that kind of drew it all in in terms of the nervous system. What I saw there was. And I find this so interesting because I remember when I first became.
Eloise Tompkins [00:06:36]:
I was first working towards my psychology qualifications. I was working in a job where there was such a low income. I was working with people who were below the poverty line and they had money struggles. And I was like, oh, well, that makes sense. Like they don't have money. Makes sense. Like that they're panicking and they're stressed and they're overwhelmed and, you know, they're just fighting to keep themselves afloat. But then when I moved into, like, private practice and I was working with just a very different population of people who had the million dollar house, they had the Range Rover, they had money, they were CEOs, they had successful businesses on the outside, but internally they were still coming to see me.
Eloise Tompkins [00:07:28]:
And their nervous system responses were the same as women who were in that poverty situation. Yeah. And I guess it's kind of that culmination of just being in this position. My brain's very analytical and I see, I guess, things in different ways.
Jessica Osborn [00:07:48]:
Yeah, the link. Right. That's crazy.
Eloise Tompkins [00:07:52]:
And I just thought, like, I just saw this gap in terms of so many people are working with money mindset, which is absolutely one piece of the puzzle. Because mindset is thoughts, of course, but what they were missing is the nervous system, how we feel about money, our body. And so that's the work that I do is bringing, I guess, what is often the last piece of the puzzle into the picture and helping people with that.
Jessica Osborn [00:08:22]:
Yeah. Wow, that is just so incredible to think, you know, those two examples. And you can just imagine that if your nervous system is creating feelings or emotions. Right. And so if you have that a feeling, it's driving your behavior, no matter what your 3D world is that you're in, you're going to be, you know. And I think. Is this why? Because I wanted to ask you specifically about women. Do you think that there are things that are more pronounced for women because of maybe the environment they've grown in? You know, when we're growing up, even the subjects that you may have been told to focus on at school, Like, I know it seems insane that we're talking about this in 2025, but it wasn't that long ago that we're at school and I definitely remember there were like the subjects that, that girls would be sort of encouraged to do and then there were subjects boys would be encouraged to do, you know, like the physics and the calculus and all of the, the difficult mathematics and things like that.
Jessica Osborn [00:09:24]:
And I, you know, it's interesting because I didn't question it at the time. You don't question these sort of things as a kid, do you? But then there's also that environment at home and you know, you just wonder how much of that has had an impact and into women or. And this is the other part of my question, because we tend to be a lot more intuitive by nature. Women are, you know, even if you don't consider yourself intuitive, we, we are more emotional and probably in tune with our emotions, shall we say, than men. Like men have emotions, but they tend to be a lot less connected to them. So like, do you, you think that we, you know, get so much more swayed by a feeling that we have without even really understanding why we're doing it and how that's then causing the behavior? So sorry, I've given you a giant two part question to answer there, but what is it about women and money? Because when we look at all the data, it just tells us across the, across the world, right? Women don't earn as much as men. There's still the glass ceiling. There's all the things and no matter what we put in place, yes, people can say these jobs are the same, but they're not asking for more.
Jessica Osborn [00:10:41]:
They're not going in there and saying, I'm worth this amount, pay me the top of the range. They're probably going, I'll come in at the bottom of the range and I'll work my way up. You know, we are choosing, often choosing without even realizing that we're choosing it. We're choosing that. I used to hire women, sorry. And now I'm telling a story, so I'll let you think, but I used to hire women, right? Like I used to hit up a department, I worked in marketing, mostly women. There's not a lot of men in that industry. And they would come in to an interview, I'd ask them what they wanted to get paid.
Jessica Osborn [00:11:17]:
They would immediately clam up, go completely rigid, say something, and then immediately, before I've even said anything, say, oh, but I'm negotiable on that. And they were usually lowballing completely. Like I'm thinking, you know, you've got this much experience, this is what the job Is we all know what the general market is for the, the jobs. You know, I know that they know, they know I know. And they're coming in right at the bottom. You know, they weren't even starting high so we could negotiate down. They're like literally starting low and then saying they're negotiable. And I, I just, after a few times, because I get so shocked by it, I was thinking, why are they not helping themselves? And you know, it made me start to realize, gosh, what am I doing without even realizing it.
Jessica Osborn [00:12:00]:
So I started to change a lot of my behaviors. But I remember stopping someone saying, please don't negotiate yourself down. Like you said that you want that.
Jessica Osborn [00:12:08]:
That's it.
Jessica Osborn [00:12:09]:
Like, stop, stop there, let's see what we can get you. Like, I might even be able to get you more than that. Please stop negotiating yourself down before we've even begun. And that was just something, you know, because I saw it so many times, I'm like, this is not a one off case. This is very, very, very common amongst women. So why women? Back to you.
Eloise Tompkins [00:12:30]:
There is so much richness in that. And I love the story, you know, and what you've said just is a summary of women everywhere, you know, and I think a lot of people will see themselves in that, whether they're running their own business and sitting opposite a client. And then they've got their price in their head, their new price that they've, you know, worked with their coach and felt really good about it in the moment. And then you get them opposite the client and they're like, well, but we can work out a payment plan. Like, we can do something different. And like they panic and they, you know, it goes out the window. And then later they're like, oh my gosh, why did I do that? Why? Because you, like, it is not about the here and now. And this is why the nervous system work is so important.
Eloise Tompkins [00:13:23]:
Because we operate, or we think we operate on the here and now, and we think that we're operating from this perspective of, well, I just am going to raise my prices. And then fear kicks in because it's not about the price, it's not about the money. It is about your body and what your body is doing in that moment and what your body, your nervous system is perceiving pricing to mean. And that's not logical. So if we take that step back as to why women, why women? Because if you think about it like Even today in 2025, if you think about, if somebody says, I'm pregnant, One of the first questions is, do you know if you're having a boy or a girl? Right. And if it's found out that they're having a girl, what happens? Well, you have a gender reveal and there's pink balloons, right? You get pink clothing, you get dolls, you get all of this gender related stuff. So this is happening in 2025, back however many, I'm not going to say how many years ago, but it was happening. So as soon as it was found out that that person was having a girl already, it would begin.
Eloise Tompkins [00:14:44]:
And what you said was women are just more intuitive. I called the male out of swear. Yes, I call bullshit on that because we are not more intuitive. We have been trained to be intuitive from a very young age. Because if you think about school and you think about our experiences, we're taught that, oh, you're so good for sitting there so quietly. Well done for raising your hand, well done for putting your homework on the pile on my desk so neatly. And then boys come along and they throw their paper down and run outside with mud all over their pants and boys will be boys. All of that messaging and I'm, yes, being stereotypical, I'm assuming that, you know, people can understand nuance, but that messaging gets collected around money as well.
Eloise Tompkins [00:15:39]:
We grow up, we observe whether it's through language. So like I was saying about my experiences, that's when my parents argue about money. But there's also other messages that weren't necessarily spoken. But I saw, for example, my dad never around on my birthday, on Christmas, Easter, public holidays, he was always working, oh no, we can't open presents from Santa because we gotta wait for your dad to get home. He wouldn't get home until like 3 or 4 o' clock in the afternoon. All the other kids on the street had been going out playing with their Christmas presents and I was still waiting to open mine. By the time I got to open mine, I was like, done. Like my excitement had gone.
Eloise Tompkins [00:16:24]:
And so I learned that you have to work hard for money. And if you work hard, you're never going to be home, you're never going to be able to rest. You're just constantly. And dad was constantly talking about, thinking about, talking about money, his money, how I should spend my money. So I learned that money was something that you always had to think about. And so that becomes your blueprint, that becomes your roadmap. Like you don't just leave that roadmap behind. And I think a lot of people think, oh, well, that was in my childhood.
Eloise Tompkins [00:16:58]:
But it's not like there's this door that closes and says, okay, I'm going to close that childhood's over there. And then you step through it and you become into this different person from adulthood. You're still the same person. And I think a lot of us kind of forget that.
Jessica Osborn [00:17:17]:
Yeah. I'm curious to hear, you know, what are some of the ways that we would be able to pick up or, you know, self diagnose that maybe we do have some sort of nervous system reaction going on regarding money. And I'll share a couple that I can look back because I've done a lot of work on mine and I'm like, I'm in a much better place than I was. But you know, when I. Where I used to be would. I didn't even want to talk about it. Like it was. I grew up in a household where money was almost like a taboo topic.
Jessica Osborn [00:17:50]:
Like it was not polite to talk about money. You know, every now and then we'd look at a rich uncle or someone and, and be like, oh, they've got a lot of money because they've got a house on the harbor, Sydney harbor, or something.
Jessica Osborn [00:18:03]:
And.
Jessica Osborn [00:18:03]:
But it was just sort of spoken about in that sort of way. And mum and dad never shared their money woes with us. And so it was a really weird thing to even talk about it. I'm like, I don't know how to talk about it. I'm not really comfortable. And it was always not the done thing because no one did it right. And so imagine then going into business or wow, into work and then asking for raises. Like, oh my goodness, that was just completely stressful.
Jessica Osborn [00:18:30]:
Like the palms are sweaty, the heart's racing. You try to talk yourself out of it. You try to reason that, well, actually, no, that's probably fine how it is. And then I remember at the start of this business. So that's not even that long ago, say just over eight years ago, you know, my first discovery calls. And I realized, so I've got to tell someone the price. And I didn't want to. So I said, I'll email it to you.
Jessica Osborn [00:18:56]:
And I didn't even say anything on the call. I was literally like, I got out of there as fast as I could with my, my heart beating. I probably like looked awkward. I'm sure I sounded awkward. And there was no rational thought going. So it wasn't like in my head, I wasn't thinking, stop talking. Like, don't talk about money. It was just literally like a.
Jessica Osborn [00:19:18]:
I froze or I Had a flight reaction, right? It's like, money's come up. I've got to get out of here quick. I couldn't get off that call fast enough. And. And then you go through different things and you. And I, like, I've worked with clients. I remember one telling me, she goes, I know my price. I put it on the proposal.
Jessica Osborn [00:19:38]:
And then before I send it out, I knocked two grand off. Like, why are you doing that? Like, you've already put it on. Like, you've decided the price. So you've already gone through all the thinking. So all of the mindset stuff about what is this even worth? You've already done that. But there's something that's happened at that moment of truth where she's about to hit send on it and she stops, and it's the action of going back in and changing it and then sending it out. The client hadn't even seen it. And it was so interesting because the same person, like, fast forward a couple months, you know, like, done some work on her offer and what it was and really got that sort of signature thing happening and helped her, you know, actually pick a price that was three times as much as her price where she had been discounting from, like, not even the one that she used to sell it at, but the one that she thought she would sell it at before she would discount it.
Jessica Osborn [00:20:33]:
So it's three times higher. And she was like, that just feels like so much. And I'm like, well, what have you got to lose? Like, put it out there, see what happens. And the very first person said, yes without even blinking. And I was there just going, okay, wow, what a huge shift, right? That they went on. So tell me a bit about, you know, what's. What do you see what's happening in that situation? What's kicking in that causes that behavior, that, like, reaction? And are there any other sort of classic examples you could think of that business owners might be doing without even realizing that that's what's happening?
Eloise Tompkins [00:21:14]:
Gosh, I love that so much. It makes me laugh because that's so classic. Like, those discovery calls and sitting there. Pricing is a huge one, you know, Like, I think you've nailed it on the head. Like, had a client who was trying to raise her prices. Well, money she has now, but it was $25. $25 and eight months. Couldn't do it.
Eloise Tompkins [00:21:36]:
She was just like. The panic was so real. And the thing is. And it fascinates me because logically, we get it. Logically we know. Well, you know, we get it. But then we, like you said, sit there and it's like this part of us just takes over, hijacks our brain. And I, like, I can't.
Eloise Tompkins [00:22:01]:
I just. I can't do it. And it's really frustrating. But the thing is, like, when we break it down and it sounds so unsexy, like kind of talking about it, but our brain is designed to protect us. Our nervous system is designed to protect us. And our nervous system can't tell the difference between you sitting in front of a potential client or typing out an invoice with a price. It can't distinguish that that is not a real threat. For example, it thinks it's the same as having a tiger in front of us.
Eloise Tompkins [00:22:39]:
And we logically get that it's not a tiger. We logically get it, which is why it's so frustrating, because we're like, but it's not a. It's not something actually dangerous. It's something. It should bring me joy and ease. But when we have had all of those experiences throughout our life, throughout our childhood, they get stored, you know, like, they can't. We. We collect them, you know, little Pokemon, we collect them all.
Eloise Tompkins [00:23:08]:
But instead of, you know, putting them on the shelf and looking at them and going, oh, they're cute. They kind of get like, we hold on to them and they're there so that anytime something stressful happens, it goes searching through and goes, oh, that's dangerous. We need to act immediately because there's something about that memory that feels hot, something about that memory that feels triggering. And your nervous system can't distinguish today versus 20 years ago. It doesn't care if there's a threat to your survival. And so that's why we find ourselves going, like, being motivated, yes, I'm going to raise my price. Yes, I'm going to do it. Then when it comes to actually doing it, your nervous system sees the invoice and it's like, oh, no, I'm scanning those past memories.
Eloise Tompkins [00:23:57]:
This is a threat. Nah, you're going to have to backspace and type a different number. And then you get that hit of relief. You can kind of take a breath and you can breathe easily again. That anxiety fades, and then you feel good. You hit send. Off it goes. And then later you.
Eloise Tompkins [00:24:16]:
That self blame kicks in. Oh, why did I do that again? I can't believe I did that. I can't. Now I feel resentful because I've sent an invoice out, or I couldn't say my prices out loud, which Reinforces that anxiety that we felt. So it becomes kind of this vicious cycle. And then we wonder why money is so hard. Because we were inadvertently reinforcing it.
Jessica Osborn [00:24:43]:
Yeah, exactly. I think it's like the more you have that experience, then you're like, damn it, I did that. And then the next time you're doing it, you're remembering what happened last time. So like you're saying it is that vicious cycle. Absolutely. And you know, when you just think about it, how, how much it is driven like this, this nervousness that you just want to escape back to safety and, and not do the thing, it's, it is so interesting. And I think one of the things. So what do people need to do to re regulate their nervous system around money? Like, are there specific ways that you can do it? You know, I guess I'm thinking about.
Jessica Osborn [00:25:30]:
There's so much. If we have read anything about money mindset or if we've done some, I don't know, even little courses or follow people about it. There's a lot of talk around, you know, affirmations and, and those sort of things to get yourself believing, right, Believing in, in what you're doing and in the value and things like that. But then it's, that's sort of not addressing this reaction that we have, this like instant like internal freak out. So what are some of the things that, that you might be able to do to, to remove that reaction? Like, is it possible even like, can we, can we cure ourselves and heal from it completely?
Eloise Tompkins [00:26:12]:
Really good question. I love that. In short, yes, you absolutely can rewire it. And one of the things like, I guess like there's layers to it, right? And there's I guess a ladder. I don't know how, how to put it, but I guess a ladder that you, that I kind of look at. And the first part is aw. Awareness and insight. And I think that's kind of where the courses and the books and the podcast and I don't know, whatever it is that you've done, like, I think that's kind of where things really start off for people and there's that sense of, well, I've got this awareness.
Eloise Tompkins [00:26:53]:
I know that I have a scarcity mindset, but I'm still doing the behavior. So the first part of it is kind of building that awareness which if you have done awesome, if you haven't done the awareness piece and you're listening to this episode thinking, oh, huh, I never thought about money in that way before. You know, you've probably got some money blocks And I say that because everyone has money blocks. Like, money is just a thing in society that a lot of people have blocks around. Then from that is once you've got that awareness and you've got an understanding of, okay, well, I know that I find it really difficult to increase my prices. I know that it makes me want to just avoid it. One of the things that I love to do with my clients, and it's not always particularly pleasant just putting it out there, because this piece of the puzzle can be a little bit uncomfortable because we're going to a place where we're going beyond awareness. We're going to the body.
Eloise Tompkins [00:27:58]:
And for a lot of people, they're like, oh, that sounds a little bit scary, but it's where that next level lives. We can't avoid it. It's like, have you read that book? Oh, God, no. Of course I can't remember it. But it's that book where it's like, you can't go under it. You can't go over it. You've got to go around.
Jessica Osborn [00:28:19]:
Yeah, yeah, it can't go around. Bear hunt. Yes.
Eloise Tompkins [00:28:25]:
Yeah, it's kind of like that. You know, we're going on a bear hunt. You know, you can't go over it. You can't go under it. You've got to go through it. And it's exactly it with our relationship with money. And one of the things that I'll do with people is get them to kind of identify what it is that they're having a problem with. For example, I felt really uncomfortable putting the full rate on my invoice.
Eloise Tompkins [00:28:53]:
Okay, well, if you put the full rate on your invoice, what would. What would be the worst thing about that? And I'm not talking about the logical worst thing, because we can logic our way through it. What would be the worst thing about that? Well, if I put the full rate on my invoice, they might turn around and say, well, actually, we've thought about it, and that's way too expensive. And then again, I would ask, okay, and if that happened, what would be the worst thing about that? They'll go, oh, well, they might tell me that they're not going to refer me to any of my. Any of their friends because I'm too expensive. Okay. And if that were the case, they didn't refer you. You were too expensive.
Eloise Tompkins [00:29:38]:
What would be the worst thing about that? Well, I'd get no business. Okay. And if you've got no business, what would be the worst thing about that? Well, I'd be Broke. Okay. And if you were broke, what would that say about you as a person? I'm a failure. Bingo. We've now got this core belief, so you can see that it's not the invoice.
Jessica Osborn [00:30:04]:
Yeah.
Eloise Tompkins [00:30:04]:
It's that fear of failure. And that fear of failure is exactly what will get triggered when you're sitting opposite the invoice, not the actual invoice itself.
Jessica Osborn [00:30:15]:
Yeah. It's like what you're making it mean. Right. So it's like putting the number on the invoice. It's just a number and it's just a document. So that whole fear that was around, that was all about what you're making.
Eloise Tompkins [00:30:28]:
It mean, which is living in your body.
Jessica Osborn [00:30:31]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eloise Tompkins [00:30:34]:
And because if you think about it, like, would you, like, if you were to hold that I'm a failure. If you were to, like, let yourself really feel that, would you want to feel that?
Jessica Osborn [00:30:47]:
No. Like, no. Right.
Eloise Tompkins [00:30:50]:
Like, of course nobody wants to feel that, because that belief takes us back to when we were a kid and, you know, like, these experiences that we had. But our body doesn't care that that stuff happened back then. It's just like, this feels uncomfortable. It's bringing up something. I'm going to squash that down. I'm going to do what I can in this moment to make this emotion, this feeling go away as fast as I can. Oh, I'm going to change the price. Oh, relief.
Jessica Osborn [00:31:20]:
Yeah. Because it was the danger, Right. The danger of, like, what the client would think about it. Then what? You know, they're not having that client anymore. They're not getting any more clients. It's like we catastrophize something so small and make it like that's what's likely to happen. And so it's insanity, isn't it, when we think about it? Because when, you know. But it feels very real and it all sounds very logical, and you might even sit there thinking, well, that is what would happen.
Jessica Osborn [00:31:49]:
But it's like, well, it. How. What's the probability of that happening versus the probability of that not happening? And it's so interesting when you go through that to think, well, it feels like the probability is really high, but in actual fact, when once you make yourself do it and you get a different response, you start to learn, oh, actually, the probability of that is really low. It's not saying it's not at all going to happen. Maybe it would, but maybe not to the extent and the levels that you went to where it was like, the full failure. And I've heard People like. So the thing that was coming to mind when you're speaking before was around, I think there's a lot of attachment to money, especially women. And it's almost like we make it something that is our worth.
Jessica Osborn [00:32:38]:
Like that's the price and it's attached to me because I'm the one saying, or I'm the one asking for it, therefore that's what I'm worth. And I see so many and have done for years, ever since I got into this business of people writing online going, you know, stop talking about your worth and charging your worth. You know, that's not you, you're a human. And I'm like, well everyone chill out a bit. Like, yes, it's not you as in that's not your worth as a human is not the price you're putting on the paper. That's absolutely right. But you actually, it is your, like this is your value as in the value that you're going to provide to someone. But it's, it's, there's a nuance there in the connection and the attachment to that number that I think is really important.
Jessica Osborn [00:33:27]:
And I see people, so many people getting really fired up in these conversations about it. And at the end of the day it's like, hang on, money is just, it's an exchange, it's an energetic exchange. And if it's not flowing, then wouldn't you say, well, then it's likely that you've got a block and whatever it is that you're believing around it at the moment there's probably some blocks that are not in your belief system, but. Or maybe they are in your belief system like you're saying, but they're, they're held deeper like in your nervous system. Am I understanding that correctly?
Eloise Tompkins [00:34:01]:
Well, all of our beliefs are held in our nervous system. There's no belief that's not stored in our nervous system. So like we can't untangle them. When you're going off on a little side tangent, but because I want to help understand that because it's a really good question, but like if you think about it, right, like 80% of the information that income that we get incoming comes through our body. So our senses, right, our sense of sight, taste, touch, smell and sound. I'm always so proud when I remember those and get them all out. Woohoo. But our five senses, or this, I don't know anyway, our senses.
Eloise Tompkins [00:34:43]:
Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm going to go with five. That's how we're Collecting our data every second of every day. Right now, you're collecting data through your earbuds. You're listening. If you're watching on YouTube, you're looking at all the pixels. But then at the same time, right in this moment, right now, you are also collecting data through your skin. My skin has goosebumps because I'm a little bit cold. It's telling me, oh, you're a little bit cold, Ellie.
Eloise Tompkins [00:35:15]:
Maybe. Maybe put a jacket on. And what is happening every time we're getting that data, and we get millions of bits of data from in our subconscious every single second. So we're getting so much information, and that then shoots up to our amygdala or our brain, our fierce. Our subconscious brain. And it's like this little gatekeeper, and it says, oh, what do I need to do with this information right now? Is this temperature that I'm collecting from my skin something that we need to deal with immediately, or is it something that isn't going to kill me? It's not going to kill me. Okay, great. If I had my hand on a hot stove, though, that would be a different story.
Eloise Tompkins [00:36:00]:
It'd be telling me, do something about this now. And so we have this sense that because we can almost, like, hear our thoughts, or we can be aware of our thoughts, it should just be easy enough to change them. But I'm going to ask to do a little experiment. Are you open to that?
Jessica Osborn [00:36:21]:
Yeah, let's do it.
Eloise Tompkins [00:36:23]:
Okay. And listeners, you're also invited to do this experiment as well. But have a think about a white bear, and you're allowed to think about it. Just let yourself think of this white bear. Maybe verbalize it out loud. What's going on for you?
Jessica Osborn [00:36:44]:
I'm seeing a. A tall, like, a polar bear. And then the next moment, it's swapping to a soft toy, cuddly white bear.
Eloise Tompkins [00:36:57]:
And what are you noticing? Like, is that a pleasant feeling in your body? Neutral?
Jessica Osborn [00:37:02]:
Yeah, very neutral.
Eloise Tompkins [00:37:04]:
Okay, now for this bit, I do not want you to think about that polar bear or that white cuddly bear at all. Don't think about it. I can see you. What was happening for you?
Jessica Osborn [00:37:22]:
I was forcing myself to focus on your glasses.
Eloise Tompkins [00:37:29]:
Where was the teddy bear? Where was the, you know, the. The.
Jessica Osborn [00:37:32]:
The bear? I was still hanging around in the back.
Eloise Tompkins [00:37:37]:
And how did that feel in your body?
Jessica Osborn [00:37:41]:
I don't know how it felt in my body. I didn't feel a huge emotion around it. I don't know if I should have or not. I wasn't paying Attention to my body.
Eloise Tompkins [00:37:53]:
You couldn't, right?
Jessica Osborn [00:37:54]:
No.
Eloise Tompkins [00:37:56]:
So, you know, isn't that interesting that it becomes harder when you're trying really hard to block something out. You lose the ability to focus on other parts of yourself because so much of your attention is being directed, just trying to block it out. And yet at the same time, like, I could see it on your face, Like I could see when it was popping back in because I could see your facial expression shift, you know, and this is the thing. Like, this is what I'm trained to do. This is why I'm so good at what I do. Because I can see those micro expressions that people aren't even aware of that they have, which is their nervous system communicating. And the, I guess, point of that is to show that we can't control our thoughts. So when people say, you know what, think positive, or just tell yourself that you're a wealthy woman or just tell yourself to raise the prices.
Eloise Tompkins [00:38:49]:
You can't just replace one thought with another just because you want to. The other thing I want to try. I like that little laugh. Like, let's just say you had somebody who was holding you at gunpoint and they said, I will let you go if you can love me. And I'm not talking about love going, oh, yes, I love you. I'm talking about, you genuinely need to love that person genuinely, with all your heart. Love. Could you do that? Because that's the only way they're going to let you escape.
Jessica Osborn [00:39:40]:
That would take a lot. It would be very difficult. I don't know.
Eloise Tompkins [00:39:46]:
You've got five seconds, Jess. Otherwise that's going to be cooling of love up.
Jessica Osborn [00:39:53]:
Bring the feeling of lover. When you've got a gun held to you, it's not happening.
Eloise Tompkins [00:40:01]:
And so I guess the point I want to illustrate there is, like, we also can't control our body. And which is why that regulation and body awareness is important. Because we feel things that are going to influence our decision making. Every single moment of every single day, we're going to have thoughts that are occurring because of how we're feeling. We want to change our thoughts because we think, well, if I can change my thoughts, then I'm going to change my behavior. And it's like, if, then if I change my thoughts, I'll change my behavior. How many gyms have you signed up to because you thought, oh, I'm going to go to the gym and lose weight and then not gone because about how you feel about it, probably not very motivated. Even though you wish you could feel motivated, you don't actually feel that.
Eloise Tompkins [00:41:01]:
So it's the same with money. I want to make more money, I want to be able to work less, make more. Just like you know, you kind of help people do in your signature programs, right? Like you want to help them make six figures in part time hours. But if they're used to hustling and working their ass off, they're used. They might find it hard to do that if they don't consider how their body fits in it.
Jessica Osborn [00:41:31]:
Yeah. So if we've got these like, you know, you just showed us really clearly how we can't control our brain and our body. Like the feeling that you have, you can't sort of shift it even if you want to shift it. So how, like how do we fix these things that we have, like these inbuilt reactions that we have to money? Like how can we change it if we can't just change it because we want to? Like, is there a way that we can change it so that we, we actually shift what that subconscious reaction is to money? And maybe it's, it's a much more positive one where we allow it to come in. We don't block it, we don't p it away. And when we have it, we don't just try to throw it away. I think there's like, there's so many examples, right. You hear of how people explain the different money blocks and it's like, you know, some people have a lot of trouble attracting it or bringing it in.
Jessica Osborn [00:42:36]:
Other people get it in, but then they've got to get rid of it straight away. So like either way, maybe you end up in the same situation where there isn't the money, it's. There's just a different way that they're using it. And then other people who can't release it and like they, you know, often say, well, if you have money but you never let any go, then there's never any flow back in. Like they don't that, you know, it's not allowing it to come back in. So what can we like if we can't just sort of want to change it and because we want it enough, it happens. What, what can we do once we've got aware what are the, what are. You know, what actually works, I guess is what I'm saying.
Eloise Tompkins [00:43:18]:
Yeah, good question. And I think like again a layered approach, but I like to call them little micro moments where rather than. Because I think a lot of times we try and go from 0 to 100. Yeah, I love it. Now I know I'm like, I want it now. What now? Yesterday. Come on. And so we'll try and push ourselves to do something that our nervous system is just like, ah.
Eloise Tompkins [00:43:44]:
Because when you're responding in that way, I guess, you know, you're allowed to have your feelings around it. You're allowed to have fear. And if that fear is kind of pushing you out of your stress threshold and you're kind of like, oh, that was. That's too much stress for me, then it's gonna move you into that really intense fight, flight, freeze, fawn response. It's gonna hold you back. But so I guess it's about recognizing that emotional response that you're having that you can't just force yourself to shift it. But what you can do is regulate yourself so that instead of being so outside of in that stress response, you can come back into yourself and make a decision that's more aligned with your values. So, for example, a lot of the times we react, like, for example, when you're on that call, the discovery call, and you couldn't say the prices out loud, that sounds like it may have been a reaction.
Eloise Tompkins [00:44:45]:
What I mean by that is it happened instantly. Okay, we're done now. See you later. I'll email you. Boop. End the call. Whereas regulation kind of helps to still have that response. You know, we might still have that response, but we can slow it down a little in terms of, okay, I notice that I'm having this response.
Eloise Tompkins [00:45:11]:
Okay, I'm going to take a breath and just check in with myself and still say the price. And that comes from being able to, I guess, have awareness, have some tools. And I love the breath. Like, for me, breathing is a huge anchor and it sounds so simple. And I don't know, past me would have rolled my eyes. Breathing, like, you kidding? It sounds so stupid, but it just allows you that little space rather than taking that immediate reaction. And the more that you can practice that in smaller moments, the easier it gets in moments where their triggers feel stronger.
Jessica Osborn [00:46:02]:
Yeah, that's awesome. And so there's obviously some things that you can do yourself, like, you know, thinking about it and maybe consciously slowing down and breathing, letting yourself know that there isn't any danger. Because I remember when I did that, and then I remember there was a shift in a change in what I did in those calls to the point where I was like, okay, I feel really good about saying my price. And I just would say it and then stop talking and actually just even be comfortable with silence. Like, that took. Yeah, that took a Lot of practice I had to, you know, really prepare myself for it beforehand and be like, this is what I'm going to do, do it. But it was amazing. Like once you start having those moments and then being like, oh, this feels so much better, I'm getting a really good outcome.
Jessica Osborn [00:46:55]:
You know, you, obviously the calls are converting into clients, then it, it really quickly shifted a lot of things for me. But I'd say that because I didn't do any actual real healing work, I, I kind of did. Probably some of the surface level stuff was those things would probably still be there. It's just that I. On another level, I'll discover them again. Then on another level, right when there's something more at stake or something bigger, then I'm sure that that subconscious reaction still exists because I literally did not heal it. So yeah, I guess that's sort of part of what you help people do. Like the processes that you go through to help them actually shift those subconscious kinks, shall we call them.
Eloise Tompkins [00:47:46]:
Little kinks? Yeah, so true. And I think it's like one part of it is that regulation. And I love like what you were describing, the visualization, absolutely spot on. Because your brain doesn't know what's real and what's created in your mind. And if we're constantly visualizing, like you were saying before the catastrophe, catastrophizing the worst case scenarios, then we're going to continue to embed that in our DNA. And so I love the visualization and I love the looking for little moments of abundance throughout the day. Like as a way to kind of retrain your brain to focus on abundance. Like, I went to the park the other day with my dog.
Eloise Tompkins [00:48:29]:
Sorry, I'm digressing from your question, but I went to the park the other day with my dog and I was like, oh my gosh, there's an abundance of grass. Like, how cool is that? Oh my gosh, there's an abundance of leaves. Like there is abundance everywhere.
Jessica Osborn [00:48:42]:
Everywhere.
Eloise Tompkins [00:48:43]:
Yeah, yeah. So it's just also training your mind for wins as well. Like, and that's exactly what you did. And yet you're right in that underneath that there's probably like regulation and being able to shift your stress levels in your body around money alone. Just doing that alone is not going to shift the underlying beliefs behind it. You might be aware of those beliefs, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you're gonna. Like we were talking about before, failure doesn't just because you can kind of breathe through it and say, your prices. I know People who are making millions, but they still have that fear of failure.
Eloise Tompkins [00:49:30]:
They're just holding seven figures because they've been able to like they've. I know that's just familiar to their nervous system. They can hold that much money, but internally they still feel like shit. And that's where I guess the rewiring process comes in. And you know, I use things like emdr, eye movement desensitization and reprocessing in my work because that's a really powerful way of just blasting through those blocks really fast and actually shift the underlying belief so that again, going back to that failure example, it becomes actually I'm really, I'm really fucking smart, I'm really competent, I've totally got this. And that self doubt becomes obliterated because the belief underneath it has shifted. Which then has that ripple effect of being able to make. Being able to sit in a discovery call, for example, or being able to sit in a high stakes meeting with investors or being able to negotiate a multimillion dollar deal when you know, previously you'd be sweating, you know, like hoping that nobody could see the sweat patches underneath your jacket, you know.
Eloise Tompkins [00:50:47]:
So I guess there's two components to it. The regulation, which is that body awareness and then, and the stress responses and all that kind of stuff. And then the rewiring, which is, well, let's actually change those beliefs for good so that your body doesn't actually have that same stress response anymore. So it's a dual approach.
Jessica Osborn [00:51:09]:
Yeah. So powerful. I can just imagine, you know, imagine saying to yourself that like I'm a failure. And then just immediately knowing in your body that's not true, like that's actually false and that's what that rewiring would do. Right? Because before you would have just, just still believed in it and looked at all the reasons why it's true. Whereas once you've healed it, you'd be able to look and think, that's so untrue. And here's why. Look at all the reasons why it's not true.
Eloise Tompkins [00:51:37]:
They don't even think it anymore.
Jessica Osborn [00:51:39]:
Like it doesn't even.
Eloise Tompkins [00:51:41]:
Yeah. And it's so wild. Like I've had clients. Like it's just like, wow. It's like because I'll get them to think about it. I'm like, okay, well so that I'm a failure. And they're like, nah, I just, I don't know. I don't know where it's gone.
Jessica Osborn [00:52:00]:
Wow.
Eloise Tompkins [00:52:01]:
And I used to really surprise me, you know, used to not surprise me. But like, I. But now I just expect it and I just wait for it. And I love watching the confusion on their face because they're just like, how? What did you do? Are you a magician, Elliot? I'm like, no, no, no. I just know what I'm doing and this is what was meant to happen and we've just made it happen. And yeah, it's just really powerful because the changes that they then go on to make in their business, like, I'm not even just their business, but like, I've had clients where we've done this work who have then gone in to negotiate multimillion dollar deals which were there in the scope of them. Like, I'm not saying that you do this work and millions are going to land in your lap, but it was already available to her. She was just terrified with these blocks.
Eloise Tompkins [00:52:56]:
She walked in and absolutely owned it and was able to secure those multimillion dollar deals or raising prices with ease. Having, like another one of my clients was not charging someone a fee to use resources that she had. And she was really resentful because she's like, I'm giving this person all these resources and they're not giving me anything back. Remove these blocks. And she was so stoked. I got a message the next day, like, Ellie, I've charged her and I've charged her double what I thought I was going to. Oh, wow. Yeah, so it's really powerful.
Eloise Tompkins [00:53:37]:
Like, what can happen when you get kind of, I don't know, those kinks out of your head and your body? Like, we don't realize how much is there and we don't realize how much of it is on autopilot either, where we just operate on the status quo.
Jessica Osborn [00:53:56]:
Yes. I think that's one of the biggest things I've really taken out of this chat today. Like, just how much is happening without us even realizing that it's happening. Like, the behavior, the reaction that we do in the moment. Maybe you look back and be like, oh, why did I do that? Or I did it again. But it's like being able to recognize it at the time that you're going into it and be able to shift out of it. But maybe even like you're saying, like, what if it just didn't even happen? Like, what if you didn't have that reaction? How much easier would that be? And you know, just the fact that money being this taboo thing that it is, and we've managed to talk about it for 52 minutes at the moment, which is great, you know, like, what that would never have been me back in the day. I would have been like, oh, this is really awkward.
Jessica Osborn [00:54:45]:
I don't know what to say, but it is just like, you know, let's be real. We've got a business. Your business Oxygen is money. Like, it breathes money. It's not a good thing or a bad thing. We don't need to attach anything to it. We just have to know, like, if you want to be in business, then being comfortable with money and being not emotionally charged around it, like as an able to receive, able to give, able to save it, able to invest it without these like, freakouts happening that maybe are causing us to make some strange decisions. Like, that is just so important, you know, what a different world we would be in if we didn't have, like, such emotionally charged reactions to money.
Jessica Osborn [00:55:32]:
So I love the work that you do. I love that you focus on helping women because, you know, we do need to change the status quo. We still have a lot of work to do in the world. To see more women business owners in that multiple, six figure, seven figure range, it is so possible. And I know that everyone, when we look out there and we see people who are doing it, you go, it is possible. But is there always that question, but is it possible for me? And I think that's the thing, right? We can always see, yes, it's possible. I can see people, there's evidence. But is it possible for me? Well, you've just shared maybe the invisible thing that has been holding back so many people without even realizing it, and they're off looking at all these other things, maybe some of them even going, this isn't even for me.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:17]:
I shouldn't be in business, go back to a job simply because they thought they couldn't figure it out. But really it could just be literally this, this relationship with money that we have, that's. That's not serving at the moment. So. I love what you've shared, Ellie. You've got so much more to share. I know, I. You're amazing.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:38]:
You get up, you speak at events and, and, you know, really help to shift people's vision and inspire them. So thank you for, for all of that. Where can we connect with you if someone's like, I want to learn more. I know that you share a lot of resources. Really interesting, cool stuff on your socials. So where can we find you?
Eloise Tompkins [00:56:59]:
I hover between Instagram and LinkedIn. I like a little bit of the Insta for some of the behind the scenes and LinkedIn for a little bit of unhinged but professional content, which I have fun kind of poking the bear because LinkedIn is that professional platform. So if you bought her on either of those, come find me. Come hang out. If you want to learn more about your nervous system and understand what nervous system block might be holding you back, I've got a quiz that you can take that'll help you unpack that. So that's always a good place for people to start.
Jessica Osborn [00:57:33]:
Great. Where can we get the quiz? Is that on your website or on my website?
Eloise Tompkins [00:57:37]:
Eloise tompkins.com quiz Great.
Jessica Osborn [00:57:42]:
I will make sure those are linked up in the show notes. So please connect with Ellie if there's been something that you've got loved from our conversation today, then we would both love to hear from you. So if you're on Instagram, maybe take a screenshot of this episode, share it on your stories and tag us. We honestly love to hear your thoughts, your feedback, or even if you're just like, yay, what a great conversation. We like to hear that too. So please do reach out and and and share that with us and otherwise we will be back again next week. I look forward to talking with you then.
