Jessica Osborn [00:00:00]:
You're listening to she's the business podcast. Social media can feel like a drain when it's your only source of leads, which is why so many people start a podcast, or at least consider starting one. The Evergreen content, the authority building, and that ability to generate multiple forms of content all in one go are the things that attract most people to podcasting. So if you've been thinking about podcasting and you're still on the fence about it, then hang around, because today's episode is going to answer some of your most important questions about whether you should start a podcast or not and help you make that decision, whether it's right for you. Stay tuned. Coming right up. Hi, I'm your host, Jessica Osborne, and in my 23 years of business and marketing, I've built many brands to become multibillion dollar companies. And just in the last ten years, I've built two online businesses of my own.
Jessica Osborn [00:01:01]:
From my dining room table with two little babies running around at my feet, I've made it my mission to inspire.
Jessica Osborn [00:01:08]:
You to get out of your own.
Jessica Osborn [00:01:10]:
Way and become the successful business owner who's living the lifestyle you really desire without all the hustle.
Jessica Osborn [00:01:18]:
This is she's the business podcast made by women for women.
Jessica Osborn [00:01:22]:
This is your weekly dose of motivation and inspiration. So I cannot wait to introduce you to my very special guest today, Rosemary Callender. Now, Rosemary and I met on threads a couple of weeks ago and discovered that we had this mutual passion for podcasting. We started our podcast around the same time, a couple of years ago now, and we really got talking and connecting about how great podcasts really are as a marketing tool. And so we thought we'd create an episode on the pros and cons of podcast, especially if you have been thinking about one but you're not sure if it's the right fit for you, then today's episode is really going to help you answer that. Now, Rosemary herself is a podcast coach and a launch strategist in particular. So she supports female coaches and service providers to launch their profitable podcast and make it work for them in and around their life and their business. So with her sort of strategies, it's really about getting out of the procrastination into finally launching, being able to nurture their audience, attract those dream clients.
Jessica Osborn [00:02:31]:
So she has a no stress less fuss kind of approach to podcasting, and she's going to share so many amazing insights and tips with you in this episode today. So I know that you're going to love it. But before I press play, if you're currently feeling what I call Insta burnout, like you're absolutely exhausted from the consistent posting on Instagram all the time as the main way that you're marketing your business, then you might be keen to learn about some other ways that you can use to market your business that more time effective or even just off the gram so you can kind of have a break from it. Rosemary and I both really believe in leveraging your time and smarter ways of working. So we have collaborated together with a bunch of other marketing experts as well to put together a bundle for you that's all about doing business beyond the gram. So other ways to help you grow your business, market your business that do not include Instagram. Not that there's anything against Instagram, but it doesn't need to be the only way that we market, right? So in this bundle, which is absolutely free for you to subscribe and to get access to, this week only, you're getting a selection of master classes, workshops, mini courses, so that you've got this bunch of really great resources to help you with your business this year. Now, these resources, once you have them, you've got access to them.
Jessica Osborn [00:04:01]:
It's not just this one week. You do have to go in and decide which ones you want to sign up for. When you're in the bundle, then you have them, right? You've got them. You don't have to do them all this week, so don't feel stressed about it. All you need to do right now is sign up. Now. The other great thing which I think is incredible about these resources is none of them are free on the Internet. You can't go to anybody's website right now and download or sign up to these things for free.
Jessica Osborn [00:04:29]:
They are all paid offerings, which means that you're getting real value here and you're getting value for nothing. Because the bundle, we've put it together as something that we're doing as a collaboration and we've each put in something that we are offering for absolutely free for you. So take this opportunity. The bundle is called the Biz beyond the gram biz beyond the gram bundle. That's a bit of a mouthful for me at least.
Jessica Osborn [00:04:55]:
And it's free.
Jessica Osborn [00:04:57]:
You can sign up for it this week only. So it's just this week. Sign up, decide which of the contents of the bundle you want and make sure you go and sign up for those as well. But grab that this week because it's free, costs you absolutely nothing. And you'll get the link across to that if you just scroll down into the show notes. I've got the link for you right there so you can hop across. Do it now before you forget and sign up for it. And then come back here and press play on this episode because I'm about to play the episode for you.
Jessica Osborn [00:05:29]:
Okay. Amazing. I'm here with Rosemary Callender, who is the founder of too busy to podcast. Welcome, Rosemary. So great to have you here on the podcast with me today.
Rosemarie Callender [00:05:39]:
Hello, Jessica. Thank you so much for having me. Really excited for our conversation.
Jessica Osborn [00:05:44]:
Yeah, me too. And I'm glad that you're not too busy to make our podcast episode.
Rosemarie Callender [00:05:50]:
Never. I can talk about podcasting all day.
Jessica Osborn [00:05:56]:
So tell us a bit more about exactly what you do. Who do you help in your business?
Rosemarie Callender [00:06:01]:
Yeah, so I am a podcast coach and launch strategist. I work primarily with women coaches and service providers in the online space, specifically around creating and launching a podcast that helps them to sign more clients, but also secure speaking opportunities. Because I firmly believe that a podcast, if positioned the right way, could be a stepping stone into a speaking career that so many women business owners secretly want. Or maybe not so secretly. So, yes, it's all about creating the foundations of a profitable podcast and then putting it out into the world. And I do that through a vip day model, and you get the full shebang. So we do like a strategy session. My team does all the backend stuff.
Rosemarie Callender [00:06:59]:
Yes, we handle the tech. You know, Jessica, tech is always a thing when it comes to starting a podcast. We create your marketing plan. But, yeah, it's very much you've decided to start. Let's get it out there. You've waited long enough to make this move in your business, so let's not waste any time and let's make it happen. So that's a little bit more about me.
Jessica Osborn [00:07:22]:
I love that. And tell me a bit about what you see as the link between having a podcast and then speaking opportunities, because that's actually something I hadn't heard before and I guess I hadn't seen many people talking about. But straight away when you said it, I thought, well, of course, it's kind of like you're getting a bit of your demo reel, or you can hear me speak and hear how I talk and things like that. What do you think? Is that bridge between having a show and hosting a show to getting the speaking opportunities? Does it something that comes sort of naturally, that just sort of pops out the woodwork, or do you kind of use it as a platform to then pitch for speaking opportunities?
Rosemarie Callender [00:08:08]:
Yeah, I think it's a bit of both. And I had that aha moment myself. So it was most of 2022, some of 2023. I noticed a pattern with the clients I was attracting. They had two goals, which is what my framework is based around, actually. They want to, number one, use their podcast to help them sign more clients so they can get off the gram. We'll probably come on to that later. That's a whole episode in itself.
Rosemarie Callender [00:08:38]:
But then also, too, they had dreams of being a speaker, of doing a TED talk. And so that's where my framework was born. But my aha. Moment really only came to be when, oh, my goodness, her name has completely escaped me. But there's a speaking coach. I was listening to her podcast, and she said, she talks about that link between your podcast and the stage. And I was like, it makes complete sense. And so when I work with my clients, I have a quiz, again, that was created around a lot of my successful clients in the past, and it helps them to pick their podcast archetype.
Rosemarie Callender [00:09:24]:
I won't go through all of them, but there are a couple. If you say, for example, you're an authority, we will create. I have then different episode types. So if you're an authority, you should focus more on authority episodes, which are twofold. They obviously showcase your expertise to your audience. But if someone was to come across your podcast and you are speaking about something that you really believe in, you stand up for, maybe it's a polarizing belief, maybe it's something that you stand against in your niche. Your podcast is the place to do it. A lot of people shy away from really, we're not on our podcast just to talk crap, right? But because it's unfiltered, because Instagram is not going to shut you down.
Rosemarie Callender [00:10:21]:
Like the podcast people aren't going to shut you down. You have that space to really delve deep into the topics that mean something to you. And so I say to my clients, what would your keynote speech be like? Whatever your dream speaking opportunity is, what would your keynote speech be about? What would you talk about? And they will tell me, and I say, well, how can we take, we don't want to give them the whole goose, but how can we take a small piece of that keynote speech and create episodes around it? And we can talk about one episode multiple different ways, but just so it showcases more about you and who you stand for. Because as you know, the beautiful thing about podcasting is anyone, anywhere can find it. Or on the flip side, someone might find you online. See, you have a podcast and then want to learn more about you. I had a client who. So this isn't quite a speaking opportunity, but within 30 days of launching her show, she received an invitation to be a resident coach in someone's community.
Rosemarie Callender [00:11:33]:
That's within 30 days. So it's not quite speaking, but it's still a visibility opportunity. Not to say the person wasn't really in her audio or wasn't active, wasn't engaged with her, but saw that this podcast had come out, binge the episodes and say, hey, I think you'd be a really good fit to speak to my women in my community about XYZ. Yeah, right. And that was the work that we did in terms of laying the foundations, getting really strategic about the episode she started her podcast with and not just jumping straight into the pool. So it does depend on each individual person, but Heather Sager, that is the speaking coach. Heather Sega's a hint of hustle, I think is the name of her podcast. She was the one that mentioned it.
Rosemarie Callender [00:12:22]:
Your podcast can really be that stepping stone onto the big stage. And I know Heather. Oh, do you personally, she's got such energy as well and such personality. But, yeah, it was her podcast, and I thought that makes complete sense.
Jessica Osborn [00:12:44]:
So, yeah, it does.
Rosemarie Callender [00:12:46]:
Connection.
Jessica Osborn [00:12:47]:
Yeah. Amazing. I think at this point, there might be some people thinking, well, I don't have a podcast yet. I've kind of been thinking about maybe it's something I want to start. But I guess we get so held up with, do I have enough time? Which, ironically, the name of your business, too busy to podcast. So I'm sure that you come up against that real block. A lot of people have. Like, I've got the motivation, I think.
Jessica Osborn [00:13:17]:
I love the idea. I want to do it, can see the benefits of it, but I just don't have the time. What do you say to somebody, really? What is. Because maybe they're looking at the benefits. Like, yeah, I know I get a voice, but I'm already doing Instagram, I'm doing Facebook. I'm all over the place doing all this other stuff. Do I have time to add something else in now, what would you say to a person know in that place and looking at the podcast and just thinking, I'm not sure if it's for me.
Rosemarie Callender [00:13:48]:
Yeah. Okay. So what I would say is, and this might come across harsh, but said with love, if you have time for Instagram, you have time to start a podcast. Let's delve deeper into this. Instagram, in my opinion, is a time suck. We spend so much time posting our content. And don't get me wrong, all the clients that come to me are successful. They've built successful businesses off Instagram.
Rosemarie Callender [00:14:15]:
Some are very vocal, others are a bit, oh, I don't want to say this out loud, but the overarching goal, dream vision, is to spend less time marketing their business on Instagram. Not doing many stories a day, not having to go live. I mean, it's great, but the longer we're in business, the more things we want to add or take away. And marketing isn't going to go away, but we just need to do it in a way that's not burning us out. And I have had many periods of burnout with Instagram, and so that's a big part of my marketing. If you have time for Instagram, you have time to start a podcast. And it's about changing how you think about the podcast. The podcast isn't going to be another thing to do.
Rosemarie Callender [00:15:05]:
It's not TikTok, it's not Pinterest. Right? Those are other things to do. Plus, yeah, there are other marketing platforms, but the podcast. If you treat the podcast as top of funnel, but also content hub, right. Everything you create will come from the podcast. So there are three types of long form content. And in 2024, I firmly believe that every business owner needs to have at least one. So there's YouTube, there's a blog, there's a podcast.
Rosemarie Callender [00:15:40]:
I personally believe that the podcast is the best of the three. Just because you can create a blog from your episode, you can attach, as I think we're doing, Jessica, you can do video. It doesn't have to be separate, right? Casting is a magical thing. And then you can take that 115 20 minutes episode and create three Instagram posts or reels. If you do the video, just chop up some clips, you've got your email to your list, you've got your blog post that you put on your website and pin to Pinterest. It's just a more streamlined way of one marketing your business, creating content for your business. And you are also streamlining the sales process, because with the right strategy, you will be able to sign clients from your podcast on repeat. You won't have to.
Rosemarie Callender [00:16:42]:
I told a client off once because I think she was so used to showing up on Instagram, and she'd already told me that week, look, I've got the 10th person signed up for the membership, and we'd only launched our podcast maybe six to eight weeks before 10th person. You can slow down, you can calm down on the stories now, because she was still doing all the stories. And I'm like, no, the podcast is working. Come be with your girls. Right? But we're so used to showing up on Instagram. But once your podcast starts to work for you, you can dial that down. And what could you do with that time? Is it spend time with your family? Is it working with those clients that are coming from the podcast and showing up and serving them? Heck, is it just going to get your nails done or going to the. I always.
Rosemarie Callender [00:17:34]:
I know it's really harsh and not everyone is on Instagram, but that is the main platform where people, women, business owners are experiencing that burnout because it's a platform with like four platforms within it, because we're doing all the things I don't feel.
Jessica Osborn [00:17:57]:
Oh, my goodness.
Rosemarie Callender [00:18:00]:
So I feel like Instagram is in a different lane from Facebook and LinkedIn. I haven't been on TikTok, but it could be similar to Instagram. I don't know, but just kind of think about if you were to do a time audit of how much time you're spending currently creating content. As you said, jessica, for all the places dm me and I will tell you, the podcast will half it, especially once you start with anything new. We've got our bed in, find our system, find our routine. But by month three, you should have found your flow. And not only will. What I love about the podcast approach and all the content coming from the episode is that you're cementing your expertise.
Rosemarie Callender [00:18:47]:
Right? Because you're taking one episode, which is around one topic, and you're going to talk about it in different ways, but you're just cementing that expertise. And because people might read, people might listen, people might like a reel on Instagram. You're catching everyone depending on how they consume content, but it's more strategic rather than doing all the things. And I've been there, which is why I can say this.
Jessica Osborn [00:19:20]:
I love a couple of things that you said. And when you're looking at the two, Instagram is really like, it's so micro, it's so surface layer, because you need to say something within 90 seconds or even less, right? Because how many people are even watching a whole 92nd story? It's maybe five or 6 seconds. What you can say there is completely on a different level to what you can say in a podcast episode. And people have a much longer patience attention span, whether they're watching it on YouTube or listening to it as an audio. It doesn't matter. It's longer form content. And like you said, it gives you that opportunity to really have a discussion about something, to go deeper on it, to actually demonstrate your authority and your expertise, which I think is really difficult to do in a meme or a small reel or something like that. It's like Instagram, that's great.
Jessica Osborn [00:20:18]:
And there's a reason for it to exist, and it might be a way to find new people and bring them in. But for me, I approach mine exactly the same way as you described me. The podcast is the start of my content, and then I chunk it down into the other pieces because I find it so much easier to take something big and chunk it down than to take something small and then chunk it up like people, you know, take your best content off Instagram and turn it into a blog post. I'm like, oh, how do I merge five different Instagram into a blog post? And now I've got to make them all make sense and make part. Oh, my goodness, that's just an editing nightmare. How long do you have in your day? Whereas if you've already got that longer form bit, you just go, right, I'm going to mine it for those moments that were like, boom, mic drop. Or here's a really key thing, or that was amazing because sometimes you don't even know what you're going to say until it just comes out of your mouth, right? You're like, that was awesome. I really nailed that today.
Jessica Osborn [00:21:21]:
Great. There you go. There's a piece of content, and like you said, how easy to turn even into a blog. Like, you can literally get a transcript of your podcast, clean it up a little bit. It's so much easier to turn that into other pieces of content that it makes sense. And like you say, time, you're too busy to podcast. Well, when you're doing it this way around, you're actually leveraging your time so much more, aren't you? I'm totally on the bandwagon with it, I think. We were chatting initially and we probably started podcasting a similar time like a couple of years ago, two and a half years ago.
Jessica Osborn [00:21:59]:
And for me, it was so interesting because being a marketer in my career, I'd always been behind the scenes. I was never the voice or the face. And I didn't start my podcast at the same time I started my business. I'd got used to doing some lives and having a voice and putting my face out there. But it was so interesting because I never thought of myself as a speaker or someone who was speaking. I always thought, no, writing is more my thing. And then I tried it and I was like, oh, why haven't I done this sooner? Like, it's so much easier. I just turn the mic on, I start talking, and then it's done for me much faster than ever.
Jessica Osborn [00:22:38]:
Writing a blog post, like, it would take me so much longer. So it's interesting, isn't it? And maybe it's like that thing where you could explore it and just sort of see, well, how easy is it? Like, try recording an episode, whether or not you end up publishing a podcast. But you might find out, absolutely, is this going to be my thing or not? Do I actually like it? Do I find it easy? Because if you do, then what a great way to create that visibility and actually really have more of a voice, because I think you touched on it before, Rosemary, you were saying it's a different kind of content. You can't really put it in the same bucket as Instagram, Facebook or anything like that because this is content that actually stays around. That's the best thing. That's what I love about it.
Rosemarie Callender [00:23:26]:
I like to use this phrase, with podcasting, you do less and you see more results, whereas with Instagram, maybe social media, because you're tackling the algorithm, depending on the platform, you're doing even more. Like, I'm on threads, and that's where you and I connected. Threads is the place to be. If you're not there, get on there. It's great for community and chatting and meeting people like Jessica, but everyone's on there moaning about Instagram. I've got 26,000 followers, and they're showing the screenshots, and five people saw my room. We are not content creators. We are not influencers.
Rosemarie Callender [00:24:10]:
We are business women who started our business to help people. Whatever it is that you do to make an impact and to spend anything more than 20 minutes promoting, marketing our business, trying to attract, I just feel like that is too much. I used to spend hours because they say you should engage, you should respond to your DM messages, you should watch people's stories, you should post your own content at least once a day. And I was like, all the shoulds. All the shoulds. Podcasting, there's no rules except for me. Maybe have a strategy. Don't just fling yourself into it without a plan.
Rosemarie Callender [00:24:53]:
Have a strategy so that you can see results for your business. But yeah, you can record a 1520 minutes episode. And like you said, jessica, you just talk and you listen back and you're like, oh, my goodness. That was what I just said was awesome. And you just cut that piece, you share it, rinse and repeat, and it's so much easier. And people like, I've added, was it Hungary? Someone from Hungary is listening to my podcast at the moment. That's a new country for me. And I'm like, I haven't even got Hungary on my travel.
Rosemarie Callender [00:25:24]:
Like, it just still blows my mind that people in all these different places, whereas with Instagram, there might be someone from Hungary in my order. It might be, but I would have no way of knowing. And they probably aren't going to see my post. Right. So it's a really powerful tool.
Jessica Osborn [00:25:44]:
Yes, I totally agree. Well, okay, what do you do in terms of. I think people get worried. Well, how often do I need to podcast? What am I looking at in terms of consistency? And I think a lot of, to be fair, most of us, if we're doing a podcast, we've got a business. You're not just having a podcast for the point of having a podcast. You're having a podcast because you have that goal of, yes, I want more visibility. I want to connect with people. I want to attract clients and maybe speaking opportunities as well.
Jessica Osborn [00:26:16]:
So I guess that's where the questions at that next level people are like, okay, but I don't just want to go out there and create one and be doing it if that's not going to be the best way. When we're talking about consistency of episodes, that type of thing, is there a sweet spot, do you think, for a.
Rosemarie Callender [00:26:39]:
Podcast show, a lot of podcasting is directly related to your listener, right? The content you create, what do they need to hear? What do they need to understand? I say that it's our podcast, but it's really for our audience. But one of maybe two things where it's really down to you is around that frequency. What is going to work best for you? I think a lot of people, maybe because most people do do weekly, that is the most popular release schedule. And so they think, oh, no, I can't. I couldn't possibly do that. And so they delay. But seasons is an option. A bit like Netflix, they might have, or BBC over here, I'm in the UK, so tv channel called BBC.
Rosemarie Callender [00:27:31]:
A lot of the shows are seasons, maybe four to six episodes, sometimes eight, sometimes ten. The same applies to podcasting. You could just launch with one season. Again, there's no rules for how many episodes go in to a season, so maybe you want to try ten, see if you like it, see how your audience embraces your new show. And the best bay with seasons would be to get ahead. So before you launch, could you get all those episodes recorded?
Jessica Osborn [00:28:02]:
Yeah.
Rosemarie Callender [00:28:03]:
If you're editing yourself, could you get them all edited? If you're hiring an editor, that's easier. He or she will get it done for you, and then you can just focus on getting them uploaded and promoted. But there's no rules. Just know that you can do what's best for you. I mean, there is fortnightly that could work as well monthly because of the algorithm. So there is an algorithm in Apple podcasts specifically. And so the more frequently you release episodes, the better. So I don't necessarily recommend monthly, but weekly, fortnightly, seasons.
Rosemarie Callender [00:28:47]:
And a big thing I would say is that you do not need. Don't think, oh, my goodness, I have to be podcasting five years from now. I mean, that'll be great, right? But I don't want you to think that. And that put you start. Is this something you like? Like you were saying, Jessica, that's the first thing. Is it something you like? Does your audience listen to podcasts? Because shock, horror, not everyone does. Right? And do you like speaking? Do you see yourself behind the mic? Is there something you really want to do and just give it a go? Two seasons. And what I love about seasons is that you could create the seasons around your life.
Rosemarie Callender [00:29:31]:
So Christmas, you can take December off and January off, if that helps. If you've got small kids, you can take July and August off, so you can work seasons around your life and get ahead as much as possible. I mean, you can get ahead with a weekly show as well. It's just having the right systems in place. And if you have the budget, definitely having at least maybe an editor on board to help you, because that's the biggest time piece. Editing your, as you know, editing your episodes is the biggest time. But it is possible just have a conversation with a podcast pro like myself. I think sometimes we speak to other people who have podcasts, which is fine.
Rosemarie Callender [00:30:19]:
We need to speak to people who've been there, but everyone's situation is a little bit different. So I've had clients come to me who, oh, no, I can't sell on my podcast. No, I can't do that. I'm going to send them to my email list. And so I have to educate them around. Well, what is the point? Because I'm going to help you create a strategy so that you get those dms. Hey, I've just binged your podcast. How can I work with you? I've got it.
Rosemarie Callender [00:30:51]:
People might move in two weeks. People might move in two years. But they will move, and they will continue to binge their show until they're ready to take that next step. But sending them to your email list, you're breaking that chain. They could have been ready. They could have listened to episode six and been ready to buy. But you've sent them to your email list where you may or may not email them. I've had that.
Rosemarie Callender [00:31:14]:
Oh, no, I don't email my list, though. Why are you sending them to your email list? Oh, because my friend who has a podcast told me. Right, exactly. The advice from someone who knows who does this day in and day out.
Jessica Osborn [00:31:32]:
Yeah, exactly. And like you're saying, there's nothing wrong with people joining your mailing list. But if you're not emailing them, then there's kind of like, what is the point? Because they probably aren't ever going to receive any email from you. If they've never opened one, they're on your list. Then first time you send one, it's probably unlikely to hit their inbox. It'll go into promos or another tab because you'd be a random, and they might have forgotten who you are by then. So it's like, yeah, the opportunity is just right there, isn't it? To think about, yes, email and podcast, it's not one or the other, is it?
Rosemarie Callender [00:32:10]:
No, it's not one or the other. It can be both. But the way I teach my clients to structure their episodes, or like we talked about, the different episode types, and it depends on your goals, right? Not everyone needs to sell, but if you really want a podcast to do that heavy lifting of client acquisition for you, you don't want to just give value, value and say, hey, see you next week. You want to give the value and say, this is how I can help you in XYZ offer. So you're making the invitation. It's no different from Instagram, except that in a podcast format, you're amplifying. Everything you're saying is amplified because it's audio. As you mentioned, people will listen and you become part of their day with a podcast, whether they're doing the school run or cooking dinner, you will become part of their weekly routine.
Rosemarie Callender [00:33:11]:
And I've been here where I educated, I educated, I educated. And when I made that small tweak, and it doesn't have to be buy my stuff, you just want to make the invitation. And that's when people were like, oh, okay, yep, that's who I am. That's what I need help with. That's my problem. And that's how Rosemary can help me. Okay, I'm going to reach out. And since doing that, yes, I have sales calls, but they now last 15 minutes, and it's more of a face to the name.
Rosemarie Callender [00:33:43]:
I'm not handling objections. I'm not. Oh, that's how much you charge. None of that happens. It's very much a are we the right fit? Do you have any other questions that weren't answered in my podcast content? But they're usually ready to go. And for me, that's a beautiful thing. We want clients who, they know you, they know that you can help them. And usually the only question is, are you definitely going to help me with the tech? Because no one wants anything to do with setting up the podcast behind.
Rosemarie Callender [00:34:21]:
Right. And so for me, that's a beautiful thing. But if that's not a goal, if maybe you want to grow your network, that will be interviews, and you won't necessarily be selling. Right. So it's just about what your goals are for your business and how you want your podcast to support them.
Jessica Osborn [00:34:40]:
Yeah, I love that. And you're so right. It's like actually just saying it, saying, hey, if that resonated with you, then this is what I've got. This is who it's for. Here's how you get it. Make it so simple. It's so funny, because I think that it's like that phenomenon where we're so familiar with our own stuff, we're so familiar with our own business, it can actually be really normal to just forget that other people don't know. They don't actually know what it is that you do, how to reach out, where to find it.
Jessica Osborn [00:35:15]:
And if you're not telling them, you're kind of leaving them to go on this big exploration and try to dig it out and find it. And how many people do you think actually have the time or the inclination to do that? Some do. But if you're making it easy for them, if you're actually laying it out and saying, here it is, they're already listening to you, you've just made life easier. And right now, 2024, we have information overload. If it's about information, well, they've got access to all the information on the Internet already. Why do they need you if it's about information? It's not about that. It's actually about how you can help them. Because otherwise they're off Googling.
Jessica Osborn [00:35:54]:
Right.
Rosemarie Callender [00:35:56]:
Exactly.
Jessica Osborn [00:35:56]:
If they're not solving it already because they've got access to all the information, it means that there's something that is missing, and that's likely what you help them with and what you do for them, right? Because you take away all of that indecision, the unknown, the lack of clarity. They're not knowing what is the best way to do it, and you help them with it.
Rosemarie Callender [00:36:17]:
Well said.
Jessica Osborn [00:36:20]:
Well, it's just so funny because I need to remind myself of that as well. I'm like, yeah, I probably don't actually sell enough on my podcast. Like, I talk a bit about my stuff and what I do and things like that, but I probably don't break it down often enough. And it was, to me, that was like a reminder to myself. I need to hear myself saying this. So I go, yeah, that is really good advice. I need to take my own advice.
Rosemarie Callender [00:36:43]:
We forget, especially at our stage where we've been podcasting for a while. I had to remind myself yesterday. I think a thread might have prompted my journey. But looking at older episodes, those first episodes, how can I talk about those topics in a different way? Because, yes, I had someone just last week listening to episode one. I was like, please don't listen to episode one. As a podcaster, when we look back at our old stuff, we cringe, right? We make a face, but no, people will go through your back catalog. But sometimes it's good to just do a refresher and start with definitely talking about topics that will meet them along their journey, not just kind of where one person's at now. So, yeah, it's definitely a very good reminder.
Jessica Osborn [00:37:34]:
Yeah, exactly. Now, there was a couple of things I remember from the days when I started, which I'd been procrastinating for well over a year by the time I actually decided to do it. And I thought it might be useful to share. But I'd love to hear whether there's anything else that you would like to add to this as well. Like something else that would be of use. Because to me, the two main things was, one, just worrying about actually being able to keep up with a schedule. Because I'm a mom, I've got kids, I obviously had a business, I was doing lots of things. And I thought you read people's posts and comments online of like, oh, I record my podcast every Monday.
Jessica Osborn [00:38:16]:
And then what happens if you're sick or if you miss a day or if the kids have gone crazy and who knows what's going on in life, right? And that felt stressful to me. So in that year, I procrastinated. I'd actually just started saving recordings of things. Some of them were Instagram lives. Some of them were interviews I did with some of my clients and things like that. But I actually started building a bank of content, right? So by the time I launched my podcast, I was like, I'm sweet. I got plenty of content. I can record new stuff, but if I actually don't have time, I've run out of new things or I don't have the time to do it, I just dive into this library.
Jessica Osborn [00:38:56]:
I pull out something that feels like, yes, I really wanted to share that one this week, and boom, it's already done. So that, to me, took a huge amount of pressure and stress off, was just having this kind of bank of content. And interestingly, maybe not ideal. Like, it was an Instagram live or whatever it was. That was a bit random. You can edit it. You can edit out some of the weird stuff that you might have. I mean, I had people reaching out.
Jessica Osborn [00:39:20]:
I had, like you say, I had people booking calls with me, joining me as a client, and I was like, they said, I heard you on your podcast. And I'm thinking, oh, okay. That was kind of, to me, a bit, like, not high quality, because I was just sort of doing some content to make sure I kept to my promise, my schedule that I had. And I think at the time, I was doing two a week, which was, like, insane. I did a whole year of that and then went, okay, now I need to drop us down to once a week because it was too much.
Rosemarie Callender [00:39:52]:
Yeah, two a week is a lot.
Jessica Osborn [00:39:54]:
So I think that, to me, was something that stopped me. And you already mentioned the tech. That was probably the other thing. So for me, my big kind of barrier was I just don't have time to learn a whole lot of new tech and editing and all that stuff. And I solved that really easily by just hiring someone. You know what? I don't actually have to learn it. Like, I can choose to do that, but a better use of my time, for me, at that point in time, that was the decision I made. I was like, a better use of my time is actually hiring someone.
Jessica Osborn [00:40:26]:
I focus on the things that I need to do that no one else can do, and I can hire someone to do the editing. And that was removed, the other barrier. So once I made that decision, boom, it happened.
Rosemarie Callender [00:40:36]:
You're ready.
Jessica Osborn [00:40:37]:
It happened really quick. But they were the two things that were really holding me back. So I'm interested to hear if that sparked anything else that you're like, oh, here's the other thing that people get so stuck in their head about. That really stops them from doing it. Is there anything that you'd like to share?
Rosemarie Callender [00:40:53]:
That person, I mean, that's a big one, right? So we talked about the time factor, and part of that, as you said, is, yeah, will I have time? And if someone gets sick or, I don't know, the world explodes. Whatever comes up in life. You'd mentioned it. Batching, just getting ahead. So with my launch clients, even though it's a vip day model, the 8 hours are spread across two weeks. So the strategy session is 90 minutes, and then the actual vip day is 4 hours. So it's stretched across. But on the day that their trailer goes live, I'm already reminding them, you need to start thinking about episodes four, five and six.
Rosemarie Callender [00:41:37]:
So we launched with three episodes. So the trailer will go out, and then the launch episodes will go out a week after that. So a week after that is episode four. And people don't realize how quickly we get wrapped up in the launch hype. Oh, yeah, my podcast is finally out. Oh, crap. Episode four is due out tomorrow. Right.
Rosemarie Callender [00:41:59]:
And so with my clients, when their trailer goes live, I'm on them. Right. Okay, what's episode four and five? Have you put that time in your calendar? With the handful of clients that I work with on a monthly basis? I know batching is not for everyone, but it helps me as well as helps them. So they will batch record two to four. I've got one client who will do the whole month, solos and interviews, and then the second client who will do two at a time, usually at the end of the month for the month ahead. So that works really well because they can just record, upload it, and me and my team will do what we need to do. And it just happens, right? They don't need to think about it. So batching is important.
Rosemarie Callender [00:42:42]:
Some other things that might hold people back are usually around mindset. Will anyone listen? Am I expert enough? The visibility piece that came up for me. Oh, crap. Because podcasting is visible, even though no one sees you, they hear you. You do become very visible because people can listen anywhere at any time, right? And then you just get a random dm or a random review and you're like, oh, yeah, it really hits home that your voice is out there. But what I would say is that depending, and if something's coming up for you, if you're listening right now and something's coming up, shoot me a DM on Instagram and I can talk it through with you because it won't be something that I haven't heard before. We've each got our own thing. Even when I started my podcast, I was maybe six months.
Rosemarie Callender [00:43:39]:
I was a podcast manager back then, and I was like, no one's going to listen. But even back then, I hated Instagram. I hated creating content for Instagram. But I love talking, in case you haven't figured that out through this interview. I love talking. And so podcasting makes sense, but I was the same, no one's going to listen. What am I going to talk about is a big one. But I would say if you can work with a podcast launch person, me, right? Because I will support you through those things.
Rosemarie Callender [00:44:15]:
I will support you around the mind monkeys that come up because I know when they come up. I've launched over 30 podcasts at this point, and my clients don't know what I'm doing, but I will voxer them at key points throughout our process just to check in with them. I will teach you how to come up with episodes. Like when I launched my own show, I had 56 episodes ideas. So I knew that I was podcasting for at least a year. And here I am two and a half years later. Right? So whatever's coming up for you, I promise you, you are not alone in thinking it or feeling it, but working with someone, at least from the beginning, which is why I do what I do, because I believe that laying those foundations from the beginning properly will help you see that success a lot sooner than maybe someone who had kind of YouTube university. And, you know, there's lots of different launch experts.
Rosemarie Callender [00:45:19]:
You can find someone who's within your budget. But I think it's just really important to get that support at the beginning, especially around not just the tech or the podcast itself, but the mindset stuff that comes in. Like, I know when the trailer goes live, I know to check in with. That's a key time that I check in and I make a whole song and dance. Like I send a voice note. I'm excited, I'm screaming, I'm sending gifts because I know in that moment there's excitement for them. But there's a lot of nervousness as well. When you see your cover art, you see your face.
Rosemarie Callender [00:45:52]:
Even now, I sometimes have to be like, what? You see your face staring back at you from your phone. It's a surreal moment. And a podcast expert is the best person or best placed to kind of walk you through or cheerlead you, support you through. But yeah, just know that whatever has come up for you, you're not alone. Thousands of women before you have thought about it, too. But you are an expert. You are good enough. People will listen.
Rosemarie Callender [00:46:24]:
They will. If you have an audience on Instagram, even if. Or face email list, they will listen. Even if it's ten, they will listen. So just take that step and start.
Jessica Osborn [00:46:37]:
It's so true. And I think it's like, when you're working with somebody who's experienced, it's often the things that you don't even know, you didn't know, because when you don't know about something, you can't actually ask a question about it. So that to me was like, okay, I'm launching out into a brand new world that I only know as a consumer. Like, I would listen to podcasts before I had my own, but I don't know anything about publishing a show. I don't know. I mean, I can spend forever googling things I wouldn't then know if I'm still making the right decision, like what gear do I need and what platforms to use, and there's so many pros and cons, and it's not that any of them, there's one that's better than all the others. It's like, it always depends, right? So when you know someone who actually understands a lot of that information already and knows you, they can be like, well, for your situation and what you're wanting to do, this may be a better fit for you. And that just saves you hours and hours and hours and hours of time.
Jessica Osborn [00:47:41]:
So it's like, how much are you valuing your time and even getting some insights and value of things that you didn't even realize existed, like you didn't even know was a thing to me. I think that's the real gold that you get, because if you don't know what it is, you can't google it.
Rosemarie Callender [00:48:01]:
No. And, like, you were talking about decision fatigue, weren't we, earlier? I think it was before we hit record. But, yeah, I'm removing as much decision stuff you need to make because, yeah, I think I Google stuff. There's not everything in my business that I can outsource, but what I find is the more you Google and the more you read, everyone's got a slightly different opinion. So, like, for example, hosting platforms, there's probably, like 15 to 20 different hosting platforms for where your podcast lives. It's how you get your episodes out into the world. And so if you go down that rabbit hole, right, you will get lost and you will not start your show. But when you work with me, once you're onboarded, the first thing my clients receive is their equipment checklist.
Rosemarie Callender [00:48:57]:
Right. Mic headphones. And I will give them my top two recommendations. Pick one. Look at them both. Pick one. If you have any questions, ask me. And let's move on to the next because otherwise you'll just get so lost.
Rosemarie Callender [00:49:14]:
And because I've been doing this for so long, my systems are so my clients usually have no questions. They literally just follow step one, step two, step three, and we just follow through for the two weeks that we're together. And they just need to really focus on creating that content. Okay. Rosemary said that I'm an authority. These are the episodes that I should create. I've got it all mapped out. They go forth and do the bit that is fun, which is sitting behind the mic talking.
Rosemarie Callender [00:49:45]:
It will take a bit of time to get used to, but it is fun to just create that content for your audience and then let's just make it happen. Google's great, but sometimes Google's not great.
Jessica Osborn [00:49:58]:
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think it's, things know I'm thinking about now, the process is just so smooth and streamlined because I've ironed out all of the kinks and the figure today over the two and a half years that I've been doing this. But it's like, imagine I could just give someone, I'm like, well, here you go. Here's a process. Here are the steps and the order that in which to do them so that it runs really smoothly so that you always have the episode ready ahead of time so that your guests are informed that it's coming out, so that all of the things that make it a really good experience are in my process. But the great thing is we're not thinking about it anymore. It just happens.
Jessica Osborn [00:50:36]:
Everybody knows. Well, not everybody. It's not like a whole mountain. I know. And my podcast editor knows what happens on whatever day, and then it just happens. And that's why it's so easy to keep consistent, because it's not hard anymore.
Rosemarie Callender [00:50:54]:
There are two things that I say you need to be successful at podcasting, and that's a strategy and systems. Those are the two things. The strategy will help you get the results, and the systems will help you stay stained, which is really important. So I love that you've said that.
Jessica Osborn [00:51:14]:
Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. Well, thank you so much, Rosemary. I think this has been just such an amazing chat, and anybody who's still listening, clearly, if you don't have a podcast, you've just heard everything about why you probably should be thinking about one in 2024 like we said, test it out, see if it is your thing. It's not the only way to do things, but it is a really fantastic and such a benefit to your business. Great way to connect with people. Do you have any last sort of, I guess, piece of advice or thought that you'd love to leave the audience with today?
Rosemarie Callender [00:51:50]:
Rosemary, I think we've covered quite a lot, but at the risk of repeating myself, this is good. This is true. I would just say that podcasting, I know I'm a bit biased, but podcasting is such a powerful tool, not just on a professional level, but a personal level. I don't know if you would agree, but it's definitely helped me with my confidence because I started my podcast when I was quite early in business, and I remember saying back then, I'm just going to do solo episodes. No. Whereas most people want to do interviews because they find solos a bit intimidating. I was like, no, I don't want to interview people. And now look at us.
Rosemarie Callender [00:52:35]:
I never imagined. I know I'm a guest on your podcast, and then you'll be a guest on my podcast soon. But the growth on a personal level has been insane. I'm speaking at summits this year, and a lot of that has got to do with my podcast. As we talked about, my sales system is I just have to create content. I just have to position myself as that person who can help them solve their problem, make the invitation, and be there to support them when they reach out. That's it. And for me, it's just about streamlining my marketing.
Rosemarie Callender [00:53:16]:
Marketing is a must, but that doesn't mean that I necessarily need to spend hours doing it right. It's getting the balance. You've got your family, you've got to serve your clients, but there's other things you want to do in your business. So for me, it's about streamlining. And the final piece I would say, is just know as a woman, you have a powerful voice, and a podcast will help you to get your voice out there, for people to take you seriously as the expert that you are, and for you to get that visibility that you crave in order to achieve the TED talk. Or maybe you want to be a guest on your morning show on tv. Whatever it is, a podcast can help you achieve those goals. So I hope this conversation has been eye opening, has been motivating for you.
Rosemarie Callender [00:54:11]:
And if you've got any questions, you can find me over on Instagram at too busy to podcast and my own podcast as well. Check it out for even more value. It's called the podcast to amplify show.
Jessica Osborn [00:54:24]:
Amazing. I was just going to ask you where they could find you, but you have provided that information for me, which is amazing. And we'll make sure those links are in the show notes so you can, as usual, scroll down, click on Rosemary's Instagram or over to her podcast as well. And I'm sure she has been so generous with her knowledge today here. I know that her own podcast is absolutely full of heaps of value, answering all your questions and giving you some great tips and guides so that you can get started as well. So thank you, Rosemary, this has been fantastic. I appreciate you getting up and doing this interview because we're literally on opposite sides of the world. I'm in Australia, she's in the UK.
Jessica Osborn [00:55:06]:
We have made a time to connect and what a beautiful energy and conversation that has come out from it. So I appreciate you taking the time, Rosemary, thank you always.
Rosemarie Callender [00:55:17]:
Thank you. It's been an awesome conversation and we'll.
Jessica Osborn [00:55:20]:
Be tuning in with you next week.
Jessica Osborn [00:55:23]:
Do you know something? There are so many people that are overcomplicating their marketing, which means that they're running on the marketing treadmill, pumping out so much content, but still not yielding those results. Meaning there are no clients actually signing up. Like what use is an audience if they're not an audience of buyers? What use is it creating great content to share if the people who are reading it have no desire to take that next step to actually working with you? Well, if any of those things are happening to you right now, then it's highly likely that you're simply missing a key in your marketing strategy. And those keys are really simple. There are just five of them and it's about how you align them, put them together. That is the simplicity that makes everything work just like clockwork, so that you have a consistent stream of what you would consider your dream clients literally turning up in your inbox, ready to have a conversation, ready to sign up with you without you going out there to find them. So let's put an end to cold outreach. Let's put an end to searching for.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:35]:
Clients in Facebook groups.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:37]:
Let's put an end to just waiting around and relying on referrals to come.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:41]:
Through from other people.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:42]:
Because when you have that consistent stream.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:44]:
Of clients, then you're in the place of being able to choose. You've got an abundance of opportunity out there and all we need to do is turn on the tap for your.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:55]:
Clients to find you.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:57]:
So I've created a brand new training and it's called five keys to clients on tap.
Jessica Osborn [00:57:02]:
So you can guess what it's about, can't you?
Jessica Osborn [00:57:05]:
Well, this 1 hour short training takes you through those five critical keys that you need to have in your business so that you do have clients on tap and not just any old client. The ones that you most want to be working with that are going to make you profitable, that are going to.
Jessica Osborn [00:57:22]:
Fulfill you, are going to make you.
Jessica Osborn [00:57:23]:
Feel like jumping out of bed every morning because you love your business so much.
Jessica Osborn [00:57:28]:
So you want in. All you need to do is head.
Jessica Osborn [00:57:31]:
To jessicaosborn.com tmf for the magnetic formula so TMF and get yourself into the next session that's running for this training. You honestly will not regret it. It is going to change your business, your life. If you've been experiencing any of those problems I mentioned before, look forward to seeing you in there. And let's do this close.
