Jessica Osborn [00:00:00]:
You're listening to she's the business podcast. Well, how does being an introvert help you actually succeed in business? That's what we're covering in today's episode. Stay tuned. It's coming right up. Hi, I'm your host, Jessica Osborne. And in my 23 years of business and marketing, I've built many brands to become multi billion dollar companies. And just in the last ten years, I built two online businesses of my own. From my dining room table with two little babies running around at my feet, I've made it my mission to inspire.
Jessica Osborn [00:00:36]:
You to get out of your own.
Jessica Osborn [00:00:38]:
Way and become the successful business owner who's living the lifestyle you really desire without all the hustle. This is she's the business podcast made.
Jessica Osborn [00:00:49]:
By women for women.
Jessica Osborn [00:00:50]:
This is your weekly dose of motivation and inspiration. My very special guest today is Dana Karen Schiaccone, who's the founder of Movement Remedies, a specialty Pilates studio in Boston that specializes in helping people who are suffering from chronic pain, traumatic injuries, and maybe recovering after major surgery. Now, she is coming on the podcast today to share with us her story of going from executive at a top five consulting firm to an entrepreneur and business owner. I guess the challenges and experiences and opportunities that she has discovered as an introvert. Now, there's so many people who identify as an intrapreneur who identify as an introvert, especially in the entrepreneurial space. So I know that you're going to relate to so much that Dana or DK shares with us in this episode. And she has got some absolute nuggets of gold. I think she actually saved her very best right for the end as well.
Jessica Osborn [00:01:58]:
So make sure you stay tuned throughout to listen in for what she leaves us with at the end. Enjoy. Let me play this interview for you. All right, I'm here with Dana Karen Schiaccone, who is the founder of movement Remedies. Hi, Dana. Welcome to the podcast. Or can I call you DK?
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:02:19]:
Yeah, DK would be great. That's what most people call me. Awesome.
Jessica Osborn [00:02:22]:
That's so cool. Thank you for being here today. Now, before we dive in, because so interested in this topic around being introverted as an entrepreneur. And I think that there will be a ton of people who 100% relate to this chat that we're about to have. But we want to know a bit about you first. Can you tell us what you do in your business and who you serve? Yeah.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:02:43]:
So I own a Pilates studio in Boston that is explicitly oriented around the chronic pain community. So that could be folks who maybe went through a surgery or have a new chronic condition diagnosis and for whatever reason, have persistent pain for a long period. And so I organize movement programs around helping them get active again. And that comes after ditching a 20 year corporate career in high stress consulting and deciding to go off on my own. So, wow, it's a relatively new business of a few years. Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:03:19]:
Yeah. Talk about that for a minute, because that sounds like you've, like, not just done a pivot, you've done a complete, like, about turn. Yeah. Face the tone. I did it. Yeah. So what did you do in your corporate days? What was your background?
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:03:35]:
Yeah, so I've always been in the health sector. I started my, my work out of college working for a health insurance company, which, you know, obviously is privatized in the US. So I was working for insurers and then kind of bounced around. I ended up going and getting a graduate degree, which put me more in a public health type arena. And then I started working for Accenture, which is a very large management consulting firm, and doing the Monday through Thursday travel and ratcheting up the stress. And that was also an environment in which consulting in particular, where I felt like I had to be an extrovert to be successful and felt that pressure to be someone other than myself. I followed that a while, trying to climb the corporate ladder. I ended up back in industry.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:04:23]:
And then I was actually recently listening to someone you had on speaking about burnout and sort of the nervous system, things that start to happen to you before you collapse, but when you know that something's not right. And I really started experiencing tremendous anxiety, sleep disturbances, my own personal back pain. Cause that's kind of the start of my business story is I've had back pain since I was young, so, you know, that was really flaring up as well. And I just said, okay, my body's starting to tell me something like, maybe I need to just get out of this, the treadmill, as you say, if you're not really getting anywhere and you're just, you know, trying to chase somebody else's idea of what success looks like. And so I took a huge detour into pilates because I had always loved it as a back pain sufferer. It was really relieving for me. And then I really just found that, oh, I can. I found my purpose, really, where I felt like I could make a difference in someone's life on an individual level.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:05:23]:
I wasn't working at the system level so much anymore, but I realized what was really meaningful to me was to help people one on one and have those stories. So that's what led me to this journey.
Jessica Osborn [00:05:35]:
Yeah, amazing. I think it's so interesting how the body does give you signals and how we can often just not be paying attention. And it's like it's right there in your everyday life, these signals that are going on. And, yeah, it always just blows my mind when you hear about one, you think, oh, yeah, that's happening. And you just thought it was normal because it's just kind of been there for so long.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:06:00]:
Well, especially when you're in a male dominated industry where you feel like anything that might sound like feelings is just because you're a woman and therefore not cut out for not tough enough for can't hack it. That kind of stuff was a lot of the language that it was kind of in my head when it first happened. And so there's, like, a little bit of shame, I think, of admitting that there's some sensitivity there which might be perceived as weakness, but of course, I believe that that's a superpower.
Jessica Osborn [00:06:29]:
So, yeah, I so relate to that. You know, it's interesting working in male dominated corporate spaces, how the environment, it's like you walk into a boardroom, which I'm sure you would have been familiar with being consulting at accenture, you know, and it's just filled with these, there's almost, like alpha male sorts, and they're all like, they're literally beating their chest without beating their chest, but. And you're in there thinking, okay, where do I fit in here? And how do you act or respond? How do you even succeed in that environment when you're just so totally different? And I do see some women who kind of step into emulating that, you know, they kind of become the female version of the bulldog in the room. And it's like, oh, it just felt so wrong to me. Now, I wanted to ask you because you mentioned, you know, you really felt like you had to be an extrovert to succeed in that environment. What are you like, let's define an introvert because I've heard so many different takes on what an introvert is over the years. It's so interesting because, you know, when different people describe aspects of it, you know, I'm like, well, I experienced that. And I experienced that.
Jessica Osborn [00:07:44]:
Like, oh, I like to have time by myself or I feel really exhausted after I've been out with people, you know, and in big rooms full of lots of people, it can feel really draining. Like, I 100% relate to that. And at the same time, I've done some tests that say I'm, like, 88% extrovert. So I'm like, I don't know what to think. Am I an introvert? Have I got introvertedness? I think we all probably have a little bit here and there, but that's a very long winded question. But I'd love to open up to you define an introvert. Like, what is your. What.
Jessica Osborn [00:08:15]:
What is an introvert? Yeah.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:08:17]:
And so. And to your point, I think also so many women, we learn to chameleon ourselves in order to, you know, to thrive. Right? So, you know, I similarly, I don't know that I would have really seen myself as explicitly an introvert. I tried to make friends, and when I get into a room, I, you know, try to connect with people and so on. But, you know, for me, the definition I work with is. Is fundamentally what energizes you. Does being around people energize you, or does being alone energize you? And for me, I can only take so much when I'm in groups of people or even one on one, I definitely find that I have to go be alone, even from my own family, to kind of recharge that that's the best place for me to recharge and re center and feel whole again before I can go out in the world. Whereas I know other folks who, you know, for them, being around people is what really, really gets them.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:09:13]:
You know, the engine going for them that's really energizing for them. And I really love the book quiet by a writer named Susan Cain, who talks about the power of introverts, which I think also helps frame my understanding because it talks about how, you know, an introvert can be social, you know, can be, you know, capable of being outgoing, and an extrovert can also be sensitive and shy. So a lot of times, I think we put people into these, you know, black and white boxes without recognizing that there's just, like, many different aspects to personalities. So, for me, yeah, introverted, I would say, you know, if I was in a. It was always in meetings all day long and having human interaction all day long. I was just completely spent.
Jessica Osborn [00:09:56]:
Yeah, I think that's really common. Like, you know, and that's where I kind of go. Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't it? Because probably it's changed over time. Since I was younger, I probably was a lot more able to take on those energetic spaces and feel really good about it. Whereas definitely after having kids and, like, into this sort of time right I'm like, wow. You know. Yes. I need a bit of time to myself, and, like, oh, the kids leave for school.
Jessica Osborn [00:10:25]:
Thank goodness. I've just got some space for a minute.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:10:28]:
Like, I think that's pretty natural.
Jessica Osborn [00:10:31]:
Yeah.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:10:32]:
Not to mention the fact that, you know, how much of it is the fact that women just become acclimated to living sleep deprived for a decade and a half, you know?
Jessica Osborn [00:10:42]:
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And, like, and then I think as well, you know, the. The person who feels this way, it's like it doesn't need to be so much of a label or an identity, but almost an appreciation of, like, it is okay to say no to some things or to have some quiet space. And there's. It's not that you're necessarily either introverted, extroverted, because I think some of them, you even can be a bit of both. Like, you're on the scale.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:11:12]:
Yeah, I would call it a spectrum.
Jessica Osborn [00:11:14]:
For sure, either way. Yeah. And, you know, I think that sometimes it can be adopted as a bit of a. I don't know. I'm gonna call it out and just say an excuse. I'm gonna say sometimes it could be adopted as an excuse, you know? And it's where I see that as being, like, really holding yourself back when we adopt it to that point of using it as an excuse and not being like, hey, it's okay to have moments of needing the space, but it doesn't mean that I can't do these other things and I can't communicate with people because I always like to think, you know, I worked in it. I'm not sure if you've ever worked in it. And there are some people in that sort of realm that are, like, very introverted, like, as in, they can't even really speak to other people.
Jessica Osborn [00:12:04]:
There's, like, there's a whole spectrum of people that I would say, like, they just like to be on their own in the room with no human interaction.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:12:13]:
So introverted that their emotional intelligence is sort of, like, you know, way off to the side where I feel like I'm introverted, but I have a super high emotional intelligence.
Jessica Osborn [00:12:21]:
Exactly.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:12:22]:
So there's so many dimensions of how you can think about a person, for sure.
Jessica Osborn [00:12:26]:
Yeah, that's awesome. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. And I think that's a really good way to ground the chat today, because, you know, then we're talking about someone who's. You've got a lot to give and a lot of to communicate, and you're really socially active person and still feeling like there's a different way of being that you don't need to be full, high energy, extroverted person. Yeah. So tell me about, you know, your journey into business, because you came out of this world where you were like, oh, I feel like I can't succeed here. You're starting a business.
Jessica Osborn [00:13:05]:
You're feeling that you have these qualities of being an introvert. What's that journey been like for you to start and run a business, building a brand, doing that stuff where, you know, to attract clients, obviously, you need to have some visibility. And tell me a bit about that. What's that experience? Yeah.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:13:27]:
Well, so I, you know, becoming a Pilates instructor was sort of like one part of the transition. Right. So, first I was a Pilates instructor in someone else's studio, and I knew for the longest time that I just really felt called. No other way to put it. I think to work with this population that I felt was really not being served by the health system or the fitness industry, with kind of people falling through the cracks who really needed movement in their bodies but didn't know where to go to have it be safe and effective beyond physical therapy, which is often limited. So I felt this push to create this thing, but I had it in my head, like, you'll never be able to do that. You'll. I mean, just to say nothing of the fact that I also, you know, had some challenges with anxiety.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:14:16]:
And so that kind of made me feel like, you know, am I gonna be able to handle the stress of putting together a business? But also, I said, you know, as an introvert, I mean, I just. I saw other people thriving. You know, the one. There's, like, an archetype that you see in the media and in shark tank and, like, these people who were like, you know, I don't care. I just, you know, I just came from a two mile hike, and I just jumped out of shark tank to tell you that my worldwide amazing deodorant is going to change your life. And, like, I just couldn't be that person. And I thought, you know, that's the person who's an entrepreneur. Like, I really had, I think, a narrow picture in my head of what that person would look like and act like.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:14:55]:
And so I. It really was, first of all, just a thing that I, like you said.
Jessica Osborn [00:14:59]:
It was an excuse.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:15:00]:
It was 100% an excuse. I was feeling, you know, this pushed to do this thing. I felt passionate about it, and I was letting myself get hung up on being an introvert. And, you know, I've had some great coaching opportunities through various networks I've been a part of as part of my transition, and I'm really grateful for that because I think if I hadn't had that nudge, I don't know that I would have done it. And, you know, what I've learned is that there's many ways to build business, and especially in a service oriented business, it seems crazy, right? You know, I'm really interfacing with humans all day long, and one of the things I've learned is, is one on one works really well for me. So, you know, teaching large classes was also just, I love it. I mean, I get, I do find it exciting, but then it kind of wears me out if I were to do it all day. But what I've realized is that, you know, there are many ways to get your name out there, and maybe I won't be at some big networking event, you know, schmoozing and handing the cards out, but I'll find ways to serve my community and build one on one lasting relationships.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:16:05]:
And it's just a different strategy, and I think it's a long term strategy. And so I found that by offering to partner with people or maybe just offering them free pilates, helping to build, you know, some connection or rapport, then they think of you the next time that something comes up. And so it hasn't had to be, you know, that, like, super bombastic, all in your face like version of entrepreneurship. And, like, every other lesson that I feel like life keeps throwing at me to learn over and over again, if I trust my instincts and I stay true to my authentic self, it resonates with people. I mean, we all have something really, we each have something really special and unique to offer, and there's always people out there for you, you know, people who get you just the way that you are. And it's so easy to fall into that comparison mentality, especially with social media, because as an entrepreneur, I mean, I mean, I'm just bombarded with masterminds and, you know, you know, people's stories and they're in, like, you know, three piece hot pink suits, and I'm just like, you know, I was, it's just so, it's just amazing, all the energy that comes out of that, and that's just not where I'm at. And, you know, I've often, you know, we have the imposter syndrome and, like, you know, am I really going to be able to, to make a dent and be, and scale my business in a way that's meaningful without having that kind of energy. And I really think it's about pacing yourself and doing it according to what feels right.
Jessica Osborn [00:17:33]:
I love that because you're so right. It can be really easy to look at something and then make that your definition of what an entrepreneur means. And, yeah, you've got to get on national tv and be on shark tank and be so bold and everything. And I'm like, oh, the idea of that actually makes me start getting smarter. Palms. It would be absolutely terrifying. But, you know, there are.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:17:58]:
I don't know, Jessica, maybe you are not an introvert.
Jessica Osborn [00:18:01]:
Oh, I know. That's the thing. I'm like, well, this thing told me I'm 88% extrovert, but I relate to. Anytime anyone talks to me about what they feel is an introvert, I'm like, well, I get that. And I get that, you know, I'm the same. And, you know, I feel like it's interesting, and I like to share that because I think it helps people who identifies it as an introvert. They might look at me and think, oh, you're not. I'm like, I don't like going to big events full of people.
Jessica Osborn [00:18:27]:
I do not work a room and hand out business cards. I couldn't think of anything worse. If anything, I like to go and have a very small group conversation with a small amount of people and anything larger than that. These days. Maybe I'm just more sensitive. I'm more aware of, you know, maybe more emotionally broke. You know, the barriers are broken down, and I feel things that I didn't used to feel when I was younger. I'm not sure.
Jessica Osborn [00:18:52]:
Or maybe that's the empath. I don't know. There's many things, and I do feel that drain. I think you take on a lot, you know, because I like to get into conversations with people and, you know, really get into that energy, and you can't do it all day long. It's literally exhausting. And I think that, like, you're saying it's about finding the way that works for you. And you said you couldn't, you know, teach classes all day. Well, you know, I found the same thing.
Jessica Osborn [00:19:20]:
Even starting this coaching business, I kind of thought, yeah, I'll be able to, you know, have clients and, you know, how many? And I got to, like, six or seven. I thought, oh, my God, that's. That's it. I cannot actually cope with doing anymore because my brain will explode. I feel drained. And it's because I think I just get so deep into each person and really, you know, you're putting so much effort in.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:19:45]:
You sponge like their energy. Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:19:48]:
Yeah, I think so. And so I, you know, I found out really quickly that was. That was it for me in terms of, like, the intense one on one type of relationships. But interestingly, I do feel energized when I come off, like a, you know, a training or a group session. I've had a bunch of people, I find that really energizing, which is interesting. I don't think I could do it all day, though. It's like one to 2 hours is great. Perfect.
Jessica Osborn [00:20:15]:
And then that does give me a lot of, you know, I feel good, but I do need to take a break afterwards, you know, and going and re. I don't know what the word is. Just chill. Chill everything back down again. Yeah, sure. You kind of get. You do, you know, your energy goes higher and, you know, you're. You're just operating at a different level.
Jessica Osborn [00:20:38]:
And then to just calm down and be able to get back into, you know, some work and stuff.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:20:43]:
The funny thing is, there's. There's actually a lot of great stories of super successful, powerful women out there who are introverts. And I found that inspiring, too. There's another woman, I can't remember her name, but she wrote a book called hiding in the bathroom and talking about how she gives. She gives these talks, you know, she goes, and she's like a keynote speaker, but then she's hiding in the bathroom beforehand, putting on her lipstick, you know, trying to just, you know, get her. Pull herself together, because it's not really her natural state. So I do think, you know, it doesn't mean that you. It doesn't mean you can't do challenging things.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:21:16]:
It doesn't mean that there's not a place for your voice in a big group, but it does mean that you have to figure out what strategies work for you to show up and be effective. And there is a message that I think everybody has a story that is worthwhile to hear. I really believe that. And it's also not a reason to exclude yourself from those spaces. I think that's just been something, too, that I've had to kind of get into my head. Like, you know, I can make an impact. I can be here, and I can do something meaningful. Even if I'm not, you know, if I'm.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:21:47]:
I gotta stop looking left and right and seeing. Wow. Like, Sally's got eight business cards, and she's already, you know, got, like, three proposals, like, working over here and, you know, I'm still trying to, like, nurse my beer and, you know, get talking with this one person I'm interested in. And, you know, I think we have to. It's very difficult not to be. We have to put blinders on sometimes, I guess.
Jessica Osborn [00:22:09]:
Yeah, it's so true. And. And that's the thing, is, like, when you have those moments of thinking, well, I've got to be in my three piece pink, hot pink suit and be doing all of this stuff. Like, whenever that pops into your mind, you could look at it and say, well, is that what everyone is doing, or am I looking at this one thing and feeling like that's not me and thinking it should be, but look around and see what other people are out there who aren't in three piece suits, who aren't that level of, you know, extrovertedness or whatever. We want to label it as energy and who are being successful. Because when you were speaking before, I was thinking, well, there are so many business owners that we probably aren't even present to. Like, walk down to your local shops and see someone who owns a successful business and probably is like, completely. Maybe they don't even speak to people that much or just their own team.
Jessica Osborn [00:23:08]:
You know, there's so many different types of businesses that you can have. And then. And I'm sitting here having a fantastic chat with you. We're creating a podcast episode. You're really good. You get up in front of a class and teach a class of pilates. It's like, look at the things that you do actually do that you wouldn't necessarily label an introvert being comfortable with, but yet here you are, and it's like, maybe just that first time might be harder, and it's a bit like a muscle that we train. Maybe it takes us a bit longer to get comfortable with doing certain things, and some people might be able to just do it first time and be like, hey, I'm doing it.
Jessica Osborn [00:23:50]:
This is great. But, yeah, I love this. And, yeah, it's like finding what works for you and what can fit in with your personality type and probably giving yourself the challenges that you feel like, well, I can step out of the comfort zone and do this. Doesn't mean I've got to do it all day, every day or all the time. It's like, hey, I could do a podcast interview every few weeks or, you know, whatever timeframe feels good to you.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:24:19]:
I actually do really like podcasts as a format. I think I've figured out that that's just much more comfortable to me. Than trying to push, because, again, like you said, you're connecting in a genuine way with another human. And that feels so natural to me. Whereas, you know, self promotion is, in a broader scale is more challenging. I struggle to put out videos on social media about, you know, come. Come by my great workshop or whatever. I mean, that I know I need to do it and I need to get better at it, but, you know, I guess what I.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:24:51]:
What I've learned is, especially with a brick and mortar, I had, you know, these cards that I was walking around. My neighborhood is relatively tight knit. It's a. An area of Boston that's historically italian american families. So I was passing them out, and in the beginning, I was just, you know, I'd be in the coffee shop and say, have you ever tried Pilates? Here. Here's a car. You, like, you know, throw it at.
Jessica Osborn [00:25:13]:
Them and then, like, run out the door.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:25:15]:
And, you know, little by little, I got better at, you know, not just making it about the self promotion, but just like, oh, I, you know, I love that, that shirt. I love that band. And have you ever seen them in concert and making a conversation? And then it can come out a little more organically, you know? Or maybe it doesn't. Maybe you just make a friend, and maybe you see that person in the coffee shop five times, and then you say, hey, you know, I. I don't know if you know this, but I own a Pilates studio down the street. You know, here's a card for a free session. And, you know, I felt that that has just been a much more organic way for me to connect to people, you know, than doing my perfect 32nd elevator pitch and trying to wow people. I mean, that was really overwhelming me in the beginning.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:25:59]:
And so now I've tried to just find places where I can just show up and meet people who are like minded. And I feel like, especially women entrepreneurs, when we connect with each other, like, magic happens. We really just lift all boats, if you will. And so there's just a lot of way, I think that's the hardest part, is the visibility part, and getting your, you know, your audience in in a way that feels comfortable. And so there's a lot of opportunities, it turns out, to actually be in your skin in the way that you like and still be pushing your business forward.
Jessica Osborn [00:26:36]:
Yeah, absolutely. That kind of made me think of one of the real qualities, and this is probably we're talking to the female people here, that sort of difference in the feminine energy, I think, around business, and you see the, like, hey, here's my card. And, like, this sort of, like, almost aggressive push, push, push out thing, which feels so misaligned or not aligned with.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:27:04]:
Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:27:06]:
That'S probably just because that really isn't who you are. And, you know, as I've learned and, like, been learning from people who really understand about energetics and that type of thing, it feels like the feminine energy is a lot more about calling people in, a lot more about sort of inviting and being. Being like, they can, you know, they can see that you exist and they can be drawn to you. And so it's sort of more like inviting. Like, hey, I have a Pilates studio, if you're interested. Here's a card. It's not like an ask, it's more of an invitation, which feels totally different straight away, doesn't it? Because you're not kind of going, come in and use this card or I.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:27:49]:
Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:27:50]:
Or anything like that. Were you really pushing or.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:27:52]:
It's not like I see you as a number.
Jessica Osborn [00:27:54]:
Right.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:27:54]:
I'm seeing you as a person who I really would love to see benefit from my service or whatever that may be.
Jessica Osborn [00:28:00]:
Yeah, exactly. And just think about how many people would be absolutely thrilled because they're there. They're probably like, oh, you know, I used to do pilates. I haven't done it for so long. I just haven't found another studio, you know, or whatever, for whatever reason, you know, I'm one of those people. I spent a few years doing. Ladies absolutely loved it, and we moved away from the area that I lived in. I'm now up here.
Jessica Osborn [00:28:25]:
I just haven't seen or found something that looks like the right fit for me. But, you know, I've got kids. There's lots of stuff going on in life, so it's not like I'm out there hunting for it. But if someone popped up in front of me, was like, hey, I've got a studio. I'm like, how easy is that? I've now not got to go and look for it. I don't have to find it. I've got it right here in my hand, and I can just turn up and try it out. You know, I think sometimes as a business owner, we can forget that people are just exhausted.
Jessica Osborn [00:28:55]:
They might want things, and they're just even. It's, like, on the to do list to go and look for it or find it, but it's like all of that action is actually difficult, right? And anytime it's made easy, you might actually be holding out the olive branch that they're looking for, without even realizing it. Like, imagine making someone's day who's just like, this is so cool. They just feel so grateful to receive that card from you, to be like, wow, that's just a gift that I've been given today that I didn't even ask for, hadn't been looking for. And now I've got it, and I've got something I can go and try. I just feel like there's such an amazing power in that. And you even just getting out there and sharing those cards that.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:29:40]:
Yeah. And I think what's hard about my business. Sorry. I think what's hard about my business is that, you know, my. My audience doesn't know they need me. Like, they don't know I exist. Right? Folks who are in chronic pain have probably written off movement or they've just decided, I guess this is just. This is just what I live now, you know? I guess.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:30:04]:
I guess I can't, we're, you know, carry my groceries up the stairs anymore or whatever, so they don't know, to seek out a service that's specifically oriented around helping them find that again. So that makes the networking thing, like, even more challenging, because it's not like I can walk into a space and say, you know, hey, that thing that you are probably looking for, you know, here it is. I mean, it's more about, once I cultivate relationships, you know, lo and behold, it'll turn out somebody's brother in law has just got diagnosed with Parkinson's, and, you know, they don't know what to do to help him stay active or whatever. And, you know, you hear these stories and, you know, they don't always pan out, but just connecting with people in that way, in a way that doesn't feel pushy, you know, has allowed me to build a business that's service oriented and I think can be done for. It doesn't have to be specifically, you know, a health thing. I mean, you know, you're offering marketing services or anything. I mean, there's a person who needs you, and they maybe don't know that to even look for you. And, you know, I try to lean on thinking about it as, you know, how will that who is not getting helped if I don't put myself out there in that, you know, little bit of uncomfortable moment that I know I can get over, especially if I try to do it, like, once a day.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:31:27]:
You know, I have, like, one really meaningful push of a person on my list that I've been meaning to connect with. And, you know, if I pace myself once a day instead of trying to do it, you know, all the time, you know, hopefully over months, it builds up.
Jessica Osborn [00:31:43]:
Yeah, you raise such a good point. And I think this is where people who have such a heart centered approach to business, you know, whether you're a coach, you know, for mental health, for physical health, for business, you know, life, whatever it is, you kind of, you see people everywhere that you could help, right? You're like, oh, I just wish they knew that this existed. And the hard thing is, like, until they're in a place where they know that's what they want, they're unlikely to buy it. So the question, the challenge is how much do you try to reach out to those people, or do you try to be there for the ones who have that chronic pain but have kind of got to the point of thinking, I know that I need to move, and now I'm willing to try a solution. They may not have thought of pilates, and that's where you can be like, hey, did you know if you have, you know, whatever it is, like, back pain, I mean, I'm sure the guy in the coffee shop, if he stands on his feet all day, is probably going home and just being like, ouch. There's probably people who are walking around all day just dealing with aches and pains that they just deal with on a daily basis without even realizing, hey, do you know that just this different type of movement could be so beneficial? And, yeah, I think part of it's being able to seed some of that out there and putting out a little bit of like, did, you know, kind of content. And part of it's like, well, you're really here to serve the ones who are ready to start and talking to them in that way. Because the hardest thing is to try to talk to people who are totally unaware and bring them in because they've got such a journey to go through, becoming aware, you know, understanding that's what they need, deciding that they're going to do it, whereas the people are already looking for it.
Jessica Osborn [00:33:31]:
It's a much shorter decision. And that's where it's sort of like the balance between some content that you might put out versus who you're talking to on your website that you like. Right. You're ready to.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:33:42]:
Already there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I always forget. I think I'm always worried that I'm being a pest when I'm constantly pushing out, you know, the same stuff over and over again. And then I'm always surprised when a client comes in and says, oh, my gosh, that workshop was this weekend. I had no idea. And I'm like, I sent you seven emails and three text messages.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:34:02]:
I was sure I was harassing you and you are going to quit. You know what I mean? And it just, like you said, people are just busy. They're not, you know, they're not paying attention. I don't remember what the numbers are of how many touches it takes or whatever for a person to actually. Wasn't it seven like two years ago, Jessica? Yeah, I think it should be twelve, pretty sure.
Jessica Osborn [00:34:21]:
I think the amount of touches is increasing and the amount of time that you have to get attention is decreasing because it used to be something like 7 seconds, it's now like two.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:34:32]:
I know, and I'm still, you know, I'm at that, you know, age where I go to do the video thing and I still have that pause of like, is the video on? You know, and I've already lost my audience because I'm supposed to be like jumping. I do that.
Jessica Osborn [00:34:43]:
Right? As a content.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:34:44]:
Yeah. I mean, you know, we all used to have, you know, video. You had to look for the little thing on like your vhs reporter, but.
Jessica Osborn [00:34:51]:
Yeah, exactly.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:34:53]:
Oh, you know, and I wanted to say too, I think another thing that I see women entrepreneurs do, and I'm guilty of this as well. And of course, all the things that we say, of course, are the things we know because we are trying to talk to ourselves out of our nonsense. But, you know, we have this idea that we have to do everything ourselves. We have to build a business, raise the kids, you know, run the community organization, keep the house going. Like ourselves. Like, to ask for help would be a weakness or an imposition on someone else. But, you know, men in their business building activities over decades, centuries, whatever, they've always been leveraging their networks. Yeah, you know, that's what those like, you know, the clubs like with the cigar rooms and everything, they're just pushing business cards around.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:35:45]:
And I'm gonna send you this guy who needs the thing that you're selling. I mean, that's how businesses were built. It's not like they did it on their own for the most part, you know, apart from maybe some tech geniuses. So I mean, we can learn that from, from that experience. I mean, we cannot do it alone. We will burn out if we try to do it all ourselves. And actually, the network is a safety net. And also we need to learn to ask our friends and our connections for help because you never know who they're going to know and how they might be able to advance what you're trying to do.
Jessica Osborn [00:36:20]:
I love that you brought that up, because. Just reflect on it for a moment. How much do you find it hard to ask for help? Because what are we making it mean? It's like we're kind of making it mean that we're not capable or something. And I think so many. You know, you're a high achiever, you're intelligent woman, and you kind of. I don't know if we've been brought up to feel like we have to be able to do everything and be this, like, total superhuman, but it's always, like, it gets to this point where you don't. And not consciously. I think we're subconsciously feeling like you can't ask for help because then it means that you're not capable or that you can't do it.
Jessica Osborn [00:36:58]:
Like, I 100% agree that you've brought up an amazing point. What are we making so bad about, you know, leveraging your network? It's resourceful. Yeah. Because it's like nothing was. Was done just alone. No one built anything of any worth or, you know, any monumental thing alone. And a business is a living being. Even the child.
Jessica Osborn [00:37:24]:
You don't create it alone. Like, there's two parts that create a child. I mean, if we go down to.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:37:29]:
Everything and the village really raises the child, too. Right? I mean, you know, you have your influence at home, but there's. There's aunts and uncles and teachers and.
Jessica Osborn [00:37:39]:
Yes.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:37:40]:
Yeah, absolutely. Everything has a. Has a network. And I think we've gotten away. We've gotten away somehow in our modern civilization from this idea of, like, community and your village as the root of your survival. And. And this is one of the ways in which it shows up, because we end up burnt out, you know, not trying to be an octopus, like with the technical and all the things, when it used to be very commonplace to grieve together, to thrive together, to share resources together. And I think there's an aspect of that, that women are natural bringer together.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:38:18]:
That's not a word, but connectors. So I think it would be so amazing if we would bring that into business culture. Bring those assets, you know, and introversion, you know, bringing. If it's because you're able to, you know, listen before you speak because you have a naturally introverted nature. Like, that's an amazing thing to bring into business. So there's just. I think we tend to feel like we're trying to compensate for something maybe, or, you know, you know, hide a weakness I don't know. I think I feel that way.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:38:51]:
And instead of celebrating the things that are really assets and strengths.
Jessica Osborn [00:38:55]:
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, just on asking for help, you know, I think we always are. So we're focusing on ourselves and, like, we're asking for help, but we're forgetting the other people. Like, people like to help people. You know? Like, if someone asks you for help, do you feel like, oh, I can't believe they've asked me for help. Like, no one ever thinks like that, right? You're always like, yeah, hey, I could do this or whatever. Like, we people genuinely want to help, and by not asking, you're kind of almost robbing them of the opportunity. Opportunity to be.
Jessica Osborn [00:39:30]:
And, you know, that's something. You know, I've literally been going through this, this year as well myself. I think I uncovered something in me where I realized I'd been totally refraining from asking for help, you know, thinking that I had to. It's not that I'm doing everything alone. I have it. I have a team. I have some people supporting me, but I wasn't asking for help properly from the. The network, from, you know, my husband, the family, my coaches.
Jessica Osborn [00:39:58]:
I'm not, you know, I was sort of, like, trying to battle through everything on my own. And that was a moment where I had that realization this year, and someone said that to me, and I thought, you know, I'm not going to claim it as my own thing, but they were like, you're robbing people of the opportunity to help you by not asking. And I went, you're so true. And it was really helpful because it made you feel like, I don't have to feel guilty about asking now. They don't have to. They don't have to say yes, and they're not going to feel correct. They have to. Right?
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:40:27]:
And honestly, to be fair, you can't own if they are the kind of person who says, why is this jerk asking me for help? Like, you can't own that either, right? You can't. But that's a piece of information that might change your relationship with that person. But, you know, I don't know. I always am trying to own the feelings of all the humans all around me, and it's like, I think there's a point in your forties where you're just kind of like, oh, my gosh, I can't anymore.
Jessica Osborn [00:40:51]:
Yeah, exactly.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:40:52]:
It's enough to try and keep myself balanced during the day.
Jessica Osborn [00:40:57]:
And you're not. You can't be responsible for what other people think or anything like that. And if you're not asking, then you're not giving yourself or them even the opportunity because most of the time they would love to.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:41:10]:
And on behalf of introverts everywhere, I would love to be asked for help because I don't always, I don't always think of the reach out. Right. That's one of the things I think, you know, some people are really great about, you know, making the birthday call and, you know, checking in with, with emails and notes and things. And, you know, I'm not great at that. I'm usually kind of more reserved and not as quick to go to my network. So, yeah, I would love it if someone said, hey, I need help with something because I feel like that's a way in which I can connect authentically and it feels natural to be in. So I think we should all leverage that.
Jessica Osborn [00:41:45]:
Yeah, exactly. And just think that somebody else is there thinking the same thing when you might be needing to help or doing that ask, and so it can. Yeah, I think we get so worried about the negative potential, which is probably just so tiny. And it's not that it doesn't exist, but the positive responses are probably far outweigh any negative. And so, yeah, what are we all afraid of? I think it's like, hey, we've got one life. Let's live it. Let's not be stuck in our fear, and let's get out there. Now, you mentioned a moment ago one of the really great qualities that an introvert brings, you know, being able to listen.
Jessica Osborn [00:42:24]:
And I was like, yes, that is such a great quality because being able to listen in so many ways, you know, listen to your clients, listen to the market, listen to what people are saying, listen to yourself as we've just been talking about. We need to listen to ourselves. But what other aspects do you feel like are actually a real benefit for somebody who, you know, identifies as an introvert? What are some of the qualities that you think have actually been a real benefit or an asset coming into being an entrepreneur?
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:42:54]:
And again, like, because of the fuzzy definition of introverts, I'm going to take some lean leeway here. But, you know, I do think, especially in consulting, I mean, being able, I was not quick to speak in meetings, you know, which was not always reflected positively on my professional development reviews. But I do think in the long, it's always a long term strategy. I mean, I have, you know, I can listen to a person's, what they're saying between the lines. Right. Because they're sort of the thing they're saying to you with their words. And this is true in a boardroom, but also true in here in the Pilates studio, and then there's what their body is telling you as the words are coming out. So I think just.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:43:37]:
I'm also very highly in tune with the energy of folks that I'm speaking to. If something makes them uncomfortable, and I will to probably take them aside and try to understand, you know, was there, you know, it seemed like. It seemed like maybe that comment put you on edge. Is there something at stake here that I'm not picking up on? And, you know, I think that that goes a really long way. It might not be the big sale in the moment, right, when you're not like, I don't, you know, have a lot of, you know, I first touch big sales, me personally, or in my consulting career, but I've had clients who wept when I left because they could count on me to be really honest about what was needed and have a high amount of integrity and choose the long term goal rather than the short term win, you know what I mean? And I think also just being able to connect with other folks who may not be at the most senior level. So we talk a lot in consulting about managing up. And so there's, like, a certain type of human that's really great at making sure all the leadership feels like their egos have been massaged and, you know, that they're hearing what they want to hear and they're getting the information timely. But in the midst of doing so, you end up potentially chasing some middle manager around to bring you back a PowerPoint slide until two in the morning or something.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:45:05]:
And, you know, I have always been much more likely to be concerned about the folks who are really doing the work on the ground than the folks who are, like, paying the bills for better or worse. So I think that there's, you know, some level of empathy, sensitivity, intuition that is, often goes with being an introvert. And then the other thing I think is an asset, or at least I'm hoping is an asset, is, you know, I've really found that a big part of how I like to express myself is through writing. And so, you know, I have a weekly newsletter that I'm always sharing personal things and also movement, you know, tidbits or whatever. And it has decent open rate. And then I decided this year to write a book. So that was a great way for an introvert to get, you know, her name out there because I didn't have to do a ton of and for me, sitting in front of a desk and, you know, hunkering down to write a book was not difficult because that is like a happy place for me.
Jessica Osborn [00:46:02]:
Yeah.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:46:04]:
So, you know, I think that that's, you know, that I don't know if that comes from, I guess, just comfort with focusing on a solo task and not needing a ton of distraction to kind of stay energized. That's a great way that an introvert can contribute to just the market is by putting things into writing or into art or into other formats that are not just verbal.
Jessica Osborn [00:46:30]:
Absolutely. And I can really kind of see that, you know, you're not needing the external stimulus in order to do that. You can kind of, like, leverage what is inside already and just. And help it come out and how much that is such a great quality that you can leverage in business, which is amazing. And just really hearing there are so many different types of people. And like you said, you know, that intuitive nature, just the empathy, the ability to sense things because you are maybe a little bit more reserved or a bit quieter listening in, so beneficial in so many ways. And, you know, just think about when you mentioned, I was reflecting back to the start of the conversation, you said you, like, go out there and see somebody who's, you know, all rah, rah, rah with their pink suit on and thinking, I'd never be like that. But you were feeling like such a not alignment with that person.
Jessica Osborn [00:47:26]:
But imagine there's so many other people like you who would feel that not alignment as well. It's not like everybody's out there going, wow, I feel really aligned to that. Yes. Gonna feel so aligned to you and to your way being, because they're gonna be like, this feels natural and this feels really good and not overwhelming or not over the top or not, whatever it is. So some. But one person's normal, might be someone else's over the top, or, you know, we're all different, right. It's all just a perception. And so I think that we have to know, whatever we are, whoever we're being, there are others out there that are the same.
Jessica Osborn [00:48:02]:
And so we don't have to look at those who are maybe in the full limelight all of the time and think, you have to be like that in order to be successful because they'll be drawing to people. Those who really like that, those who really with that sort of vibe and are probably fairly similar themselves, they're just like, I want to be that. I'm just a couple of steps behind. They're unlikely to be attracting in those who really feel like, wow, you're like, we're on different planets, because that's just the way that we are as humans. And I love that, you know, you can really shine that light. Now. It's not a detriment at all to be introverted in business. It is the way that you are and the way that you can run your business and about aligning to what your strengths are and call in the people who feel that same way because they'll be.
Jessica Osborn [00:48:57]:
Who are attracted to you.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:48:59]:
Yeah, I think it's all about the stories that we tell ourselves. So if you tell yourself a story that that's the only kind of person who will be successful, then you'll. Then that side hustle will never grow. You know, if you have to believe in yourself first. And it's hard because there's a dominant narrative that's very loud, I think that puts forward certain ideals. I mean, I felt that also becoming a Pilates instructor because I'm in a larger body. And so if I was showing up in a fitness environment where people were wearing, you know, skimpy little outfits, and they called it, like, aspirational, you know, dressing for the. For the.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:49:44]:
For the class, because they felt that it would sell more classes if people were coming and seeing the instructor as somebody super fit and stuff. And that was really hard for me to overcome. I felt very insecure about that. But then I had a lot of clients who came and said, well, I like coming to your class because I've, you know, I like knowing that it's okay to be in the body that I'm in, you know, and that was a real learning for me. And I think that's just been true on so many levels that, like, you're saying that there's always someone out there who's for you. And, you know, I mean, as much as we want to feel like, you know, we're all special snowflakes, I mean, there are other people out there who have. Who can relate to us in enough of a way that they're going to be. This.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:50:30]:
What we have to offer is going to resonate with them. And I just feel so strongly that if, you know, women or anyone are feeling called to pursue a passion project as a business, that there's really no. Nothing about a person's background or abilities or personality types that should make them feel that they are predisposed to fail.
Jessica Osborn [00:50:53]:
Yeah, I totally agree. And, you know, you've really beautifully summed that up there. There's nothing there to stop you, because anything that you're thinking is a reason. You just have to stop and think, well, actually, there's a whole lot of people out there exactly the same as me and feeling the same way when they're looking at whatever it is that you've looked at and you're feeling like, oh, I couldn't do that. I need to fix that.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:51:16]:
Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:51:17]:
Thousands of people thinking the exact same thing. So that's okay. You can do it. You don't have to do it. You can find a different way. You can decide to do it and take that step like there are no rules. And it's just like you said about really letting go of all the stories that we're telling ourselves and being able to step forward and do it your way, do it the way that feels good to you. Yeah, it's lovely.
Jessica Osborn [00:51:45]:
This has been such an interesting conversation. Do you have anything that you wanted to leave our listeners with? You know, any. I know that you just had a beautiful, like, you just summed it up beautifully a moment ago, but is there anything that you're like, oh, yeah, I really wish I could have mentioned this to. Or, you know, maybe told my past self this thing if I had the chance.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:52:09]:
I guess I. What? Yeah. Telling my past self. Boy, that's a memoir I need to write. Speaking of books. But I think don't mistake a risk from. From a. No, from the universe.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:52:21]:
I think you can get a hung up on this feels risky, and it's making me feel a little nervous. Therefore, it's too big of a challenge, and it's a hurdle that I can't overcome. So I think there's, like, a really fine line between following your gut, making sure that you're staying true to your intuition, but also not getting hung up in the story that risks are going to. Are going to pull you down, because I can guarantee that you're going to take risks in business, and some are going to work out great and some are not. And the ones that don't are sometimes the ones you learn from the most. And I know that's, like, you don't want to hear that if you're a perfectionist or overachiever like myself, like, I think you probably can relate to as well from what I've heard on other shows. But, you know, you want to believe that there's going to be this, like, perfectly, like, aligned map of how you're going to get to the gold thing at the end, and it's just not like that. You take a step and then you go, okay, now what? You take a step.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:53:19]:
Okay, now what? It's like, choose your own adventure books.
Jessica Osborn [00:53:21]:
Yeah.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:53:22]:
So, yeah, I would just say, I don't know, you can do it. I just. I wish I could have told that person a lot sooner that she. She really had all the tools inside of her. I think everyone really has them there.
Jessica Osborn [00:53:32]:
Yeah. I love that. You've actually just added so many little nuggets in that last piece. The risks in business. Yeah. I used to pride myself on being a person that would be like, you know, I real. I think everything through, and, you know, I was sort of that person that would always take an idea and think it through, and I'd be like, why other people doing this? And I think that was crazy. There's nothing wrong with thinking something through to an extent, but it's like, you can think it through till you're just frozen in that time, because there's never an end to thinking it through, and you end up going around the circles.
Jessica Osborn [00:54:06]:
And like you said, there is no such thing as no risk. If you're literally taking no risk in business, you're not moving forward at all. You're just staying where you are. And a lot of the risks actually turn out really well. And I think it's just not being afraid of, hey, you know, so if it doesn't work out well, what's the worst thing that's really going to happen? You know, are we not really, you know, taking time to get comfortable with it, to just say, well, you know, so what's the worst thing that I'm possibly thinking of in my head that might happen if I do this? And really, how bad is that, actually? Like, is the world going to end? Am I going to die? Like, what kind of level of bad is this? Or is it like, oh, it might be embarrassing for five minutes? Right, right. And that's something I've definitely worked on myself since coming into this space. Being an entrepreneur, I worked through this and still do all the time, you know, like, hang on, let's just stop worrying about something that maybe isn't even going to eventuate because you don't know what's going to happen until you do it. Right.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:55:11]:
Well, and I just really think that there's no greater joy than allowing yourself to follow your passions, you know, to get to the end of your life and know that you followed your passion as far as it could take you. I mean, having been in so many unfulfilling workplaces, following other people's goals, it's like, just take that leap, you're always going to feel half blindfolded. You're never going to be able to have a contingency plan for every outcome. I can relate to that so much.
Jessica Osborn [00:55:38]:
Yeah. The unexpected will always happen.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:55:41]:
Yes.
Jessica Osborn [00:55:42]:
And then have a business bestie whose.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:55:44]:
Hand you can grab when you're. As you're jumping like Thelma Louise in the car.
Jessica Osborn [00:55:49]:
Yeah. And I think that's. I read this book recently called Feel the fear and do it anyway. And it's really great.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:55:55]:
And the one premise.
Jessica Osborn [00:55:57]:
Yeah, I really recommend it. It's so good. The premise breaks down to, if you believe you can handle it, then you will overcome your fears. Like, any type of fear comes back to can you handle it? So it's like what you just said. You can't actually predict the future. You can plan for certain scenarios for sure. But if you always went, I've got to be risk free and I've got to know exactly what's going to happen and everything's going to be mapped out, guess what? The universe will throw you an absolute curveball that you never even imagined existed. That's going to happen no matter what.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:34]:
So let's not even worry about it. Let's just go. Okay. Well, whatever happens, I can handle it. I've taken care of what I think are the biggest things that could be a real disaster. I've got those sort of sorted. Anything else? Totally fine. We'll get through it.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:47]:
And if you can have that and start to adopt that thinking of being able to handle it, I think literally the world is your oyster. You can do anything because anything becomes possible. Absolutely. But, yeah.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:57:00]:
Love that.
Jessica Osborn [00:57:00]:
Thank you so much, DK. This has been such a great chat. I had a pleasant time.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:57:06]:
Yeah, my pleasure was great.
Jessica Osborn [00:57:08]:
Yeah. Where can people connect with you if they would like to reach out and learn a bit more? Maybe they've got some pain, chronic pain, and, you know, thinking, maybe I need to look into pilates and see whether that might be a great solution. I'm sure that absolutely lots of people think of that.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:57:27]:
I'm at movementremedies.org dot, so that's my website. I do have a virtual offering. So I do a mat class that's specifically for folks who are experiencing different kinds of pain. It's a restorative Pilates mat class twice a week. If we get a big australian contingent, I might need to rethink the schedule. But that's okay. I'm not above doing that. And then I also do see folks one on one for express sessions.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:57:53]:
Which are, you know, 25 minutes sessions to help build programs in their homes. But I also do workshops with teams on stress resilience. And because chronic pain is really common, it's roughly a quarter of the world's population, and that's not including all the women who are just muscling through and not telling anybody they're actually in pain. So, yeah, it's a big issue if you have a team making sure that your folks are not getting burnt out and they're honoring their nervous systems and staying resilient and so on. So, yeah, DK at movement remedies is a great way to reach out. I'm happy to receive emails, or movement remedies is my handle on instagram.
Jessica Osborn [00:58:35]:
Fantastic. We'll link all those up in the show notes because, yeah, like you say, I was just thinking how many people might be sitting at work if you are a leader with a team, or you've got employees and your mind just isn't fully there, you're not fully on your work if you're experiencing pain and you're just living with it, so you're not getting the most out of your people or your employees if they're going through that. You're so right. This is something that we need to tackle, I think, for everybody. I look at some people in my family and they definitely live with chronic pain every day. And it does just take over your life, doesn't it? So, really tough. But thank you so much for sharing. It sounds amazing and beautiful resources, online classes.
Jessica Osborn [00:59:25]:
It just sounds like you've got everything covered. So thank you for coming and sharing all of this with us today. And I love hearing about your journey as an introvert from executive into entrepreneurship. It sounds like you're doing an amazing job.
Dana Karen Ciccone [00:59:39]:
Thank you so much. It was really nice to be here.
Jessica Osborn [00:59:42]:
Thank you.
Jessica Osborn [00:59:43]:
Isn't it just so frustrating when you know that out there, there are so many people that actually need your help and there's many actively looking for somebody just like you, yet all you seem to attract are the odd tire kicker or really uncommitted client that's kind of dabbling and they don't look light you up. They really don't get great results. And you're thinking, what does it actually take to attract clients who are committed, who are happy to pay proper prices for what it is that I do and that I can help to have really great results. What is it going to take? Well, it's not in the activity of what you're doing.
Jessica Osborn [01:00:24]:
Here's the thing.
Jessica Osborn [01:00:25]:
It's usually something else that's a bit deeper. And I'm sharing with you what that is, my training. It's called five keys to premium paying clients. And I'm going to share with you what are these five things that you need to have in your strategy so that no matter what tactic or activity you choose to do, it actually works like it works. You attract the right clients, the ones who are ready to work with you, the ones who are ready to pay and sign up. So get yourself over to my website now on jessicaosborne.com tmf. Register for this free class and let's dive right in. So once again, that's jessicaosborne.com TMF and the link is below in the show notes as well.
Jessica Osborn [01:01:12]:
I encourage you to register now. Allocate just over an hour of your time, maybe up to an hour and a half, that you can take some notes and really reflect on the things that I share with you in this class. And let's change your year this year. Let's make your business actually turn into.
Jessica Osborn [01:01:30]:
Your dream business together.
