EP319 - SHELLEY - AUDIO FOR DESCRIPT
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[00:00:00] Why do high-achieving women still doubt themselves despite having so much success and evidence of success in their lives? Well, it could be that there's a form of self-leadership that is missing from their lives. So what is self-leadership, and how can you start to activate it within your own life?
Stay tuned. That's what we're talking about in today's episode.
And I'm your host, Jessica Osborne. With over 20 years in corporate marketing right to the very top, and 15 years as an online entrepreneur building my own two businesses from home with my kids running around at my feet, I now help female coaches and online experts to position themselves as distinctly different in their industry so that they are recognized as an authority, attract the right sort of high-paying clients, and create [00:01:00] the sort of business that gives them the freedom and flexibility to work on their terms, while also having unlimited potential of earnings.
So today's episode, I am speaking to a wonderful coach and business consultant called Shelley Bosworth. Shelley is an ICF-accredited business leadership and mindset coach with a true passion for supporting women to understand themselves and their mindset in order to get out of your own way and achieve your true potential, both professionally and personally.
She works with ambitious and determined women who are ready to step up and into the next level of your life, whatever that may look like for you. So like me, she has an extensive career in corporate. Over 25 years she spent in senior roles with multiple functions in the operations side of businesses, and she has her own journey that she shares a lot of insights into of stepping away from that [00:02:00] corporate career and into entrepreneurship.
She credits her success in business to the work she has done on her mindset, and the key being resiliently bouncing back, keeping going, and building that six-figure business in her 40s, achieving the goals that she only ever dreamed of in her younger years. Shelley's passionate about helping others understand the power of their mindset, and has helped hundreds of ambitious women take action rather than simply wishing, hoping, and berating themselves for not moving forward.
So without further ado, let me introduce you to Shelley, and we're going to have a really fantastic discussion about what self-leadership looks like, um, and why- Giving yourself permission to give yourself permission could be the signature move that makes the biggest impact for you. Here we are in the studio with Shelley Bosworth.
Welcome, Shelley. So glad to have you with me today. Thank you so much for inviting [00:03:00] me. I'm really pleased to be here. Yes, likewise. I think today ta- chatting about self-leadership, why this is so important for women. This is a conversation that is so relevant right now. Um, I think this year, I... There are just so many people going through huge changes, you know, feeling really misaligned with where they're at, and, and wanting to make some big shifts.
And I think that what you're gonna bring to this conversation today is probably going to be so valuable for everybody. Absolutely. Yeah. But before we start, because, uh, you know, we've been already chatting off air, and, um, I know that we have lots to chat about. But could you give everybody a quick rundown of exactly, you know, what is it that you do in your business?
Um, who do you help? And, and how did you get into it? I'd love to know that too. Of course. All right. Well, let's do that bit first. Let's give a really quick backstory, and I promise I'll keep it quick. The short version is I spent 25 years in the corporate world in the UK. Mm-hmm. So very standard, you know, upbringing.
Go to school, [00:04:00] work hard, do your exams, get a good job with a good pension package, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. And I was always very ambitious. Um, I'm not gonna give the worries me story, but you know, I didn't, we didn't grow up with a lot. We were a very, very standard working class family. And I, by ambitious, what I mean is just kind of had these dreams, if you like, of more.
Whether I believed I could have them or not, I don't know. Mm-hmm. Anyway, I was, I was very much a version of the people I work with now, and that often happens, doesn't it? Yeah. So I worked very hard. Um, I very much spent my corporate career proving myself to myself as well as the world around me, climbing the corporate ladder, and I did well.
I, you know, I'd got to a very good level. I was earning a very good salary. Mm-hmm. I had a lovely house, a lovely car. I had the handbags, the shoes. All the things were ticked off the list. Nice nowadays. But I was also exhausted, um, and never really felt like- I, I never quite felt good enough. I always felt like, you know- Mm-hmm
surely I could do more, but how the hell do I get to more? Anyway, in terms [00:05:00] of kind of where I, how I ended up here, it's not because of that. So interestingly, there's a twist in the story. And, and again, very short version of that is just after my husband and I got married, my husband's father was d- diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's.
Mm. And so that changed kind of the trajectory of life for us. And we went through a three-year difficult period where my father-in-law deteriorated very quickly and passed away. Mm. Yeah. And for us, that gave a whole new lens on life. Yeah. He was only 63 when he passed, and even more sadly, one year after he passed away, my mother-in-law passed away w- after a terminal cancer battle.
Oh. So we lost both of them in less than a year. For me, that really just threw this lens of, "Okay, right. What are we doing with life? Where are we trying to get?" Totally. You know, this, yeah. You know, just- Mm-hmm ... and so I wasn't miserable at work, but there was this sudden moment of- I, I almost that bit of like it's not enough, but that feels really ungrateful because I've got all the, [00:06:00] I've got all the stuff.
Yeah. Okay? I've got this really lovely life. Yeah. But equally, having dreams and aspirations and not necessarily believing that I could achieve them. Right. So I trained as a coach. I, I worked with a coach first. Um, and through the working with a coach to try and work out what the heck I was trying to achieve in life, I was like, "Can't, I can't do this in my job with my team."
Yeah. "What if I found out more about this?" And so I trained as a coach back in 2019, and I launched the business at the back end of 2019 while still in corporate, like so many of us do, so working and building on the side. Um, and things grew quickly. Not overnight success, I wanna be really clear about that.
Yeah. But organically things started to grow. Mm-hmm. Um, and we were in a position where we decided that I would really go all in. I gave myself a year to do so, and, um, I won't go down this route in terms of the story, but short version again, uh, I actually left my corporate role in December 2019 to go all in on an [00:07:00] online...
Well, a, a, a coaching business just before obviously the world went into a global pandemic. Yeah. Um, now here we are in 2026, I'm still here. But the evolution of my business over the last five years has been very much working more and more with versions of me, if you like, because that's what I know.
Mm-hmm. So what do I do and how do I do it? I'm a business mindset leadership coach. I work primarily with female founders and with female execs. Um, and generally speaking, what I always say about the women I work with is they are brilliant at what they do. Mm-hmm. They're already pretty successful, but behind the scenes is where the pressure is.
So a lot of the women I work with are outwardly, everyone else thinks they are very successful, they've kind of achieved everything, and everyone's looking at them going, "Oh my God, I wish I was there." Inwardly, they're second-guessing, overthinking, putting so much pressure on themselves, and almost starting to feel like this success has come at the expense of themselves.
Mm-hmm. So I kind of sit, [00:08:00] I work very strategically. I wor- I ran businesses for 25 years. Mm-hmm. I work mindset because, my God, my own journey with my own mindset over the last 10 years has been incredible. Yeah. Um, and I wanna help women build both businesses or careers, but lives that they are proud of without having to kind of sacrifice themselves, their health or everything they believe in.
So that's what I do. Yeah. Amazing. I really, uh, relate to so much of that. I think that- How, you know, there's just been so many people that we've been brought up with this, here's the path. You know, you go to school, you get qualified, you finish school, you go to university. Especially I think our generation.
Like my parents- Yeah ... um, you know, it was all about education, and that was the pathway to, to success basically. And it was, it just was the way it was, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And, and probably like you, I mean, I spent 20 years in corporate before I felt that same thing where it was like, "Why am I not..." [00:09:00] I'm h- I'm where I wanted to be as in I was the head of marketing communications.
Mm-hmm. So I was at the top of the ladder. Mm-hmm. Like, there is no, um, higher role in marketing. You know, yes, the title could change. I could be called CMO, but effectively I was CMO. That was the h- the highest marketing role in the, in the company. Um, and I was like, "Well, the next step is CEO," and I was looking around going, "I don't like what that looks like.
Like, I don't like what I'm seeing." Yes. "And I don't want that." No. And it was like, it all happened at this time. I had children. I know, I know that that creates change, and annoyingly, the CEO, who was my boss at the time, said to me, "Oh, you'll change." And I was like, "How dare you tell me that I don't want my career anymore or that I won't want this?
You know, I worked really hard for it." Um, but h- annoyingly, he was right, and I h- I do have to admit that My perception on what I wanted and what I thought was important changed. And it wasn't that I didn't want to work, or I didn't wanna work hard, or I wasn't, um, [00:10:00] someone who still wanted to achieve more.
I just felt more hamstrung than ever. It was like I was stuck in this box being held back by not only the lack of opportunity and ability to... You know, I was like, "I could do so much more. I could help so many more people. I could have such a bigger impact, and I'm not able to in this place where I am." And I think I just got so frustrated- Yeah
that I was like, "I have to get out. I've gotta go. I've gotta have a go at building my own business." That is the path that I saw that I could help, um, more people, and actually have it feel fulfilling because, you know, you walk in, work in a corporate organization like you know, you- you're like, "Okay, well, I'm meeting my KPIs.
I'm, you know, growing the business. Our marketing results are just going up, and up, and up." Mm-hmm. "I'm helping fill shareholders' pockets, basically." Yes. "I'm making the board of directors happy," and that was it. And it just felt very flat, and empty, and lacking any meaning to me. Um, so yeah. It's really [00:11:00] interesting, isn't it?
'Cause, you know, I think gen- very much our generation, um, I'm making such assumption that we're the same. I think we're about the same kind of age category. Yeah. Um, you know, it very mu- we, we, I think we had, we were a r- we've, we've lived through a very exciting generational shift. Mm-hmm. You know, you're right.
My, you know, our parents and, and before that, they, the, it was the exception, not the rule to run your own business, right? And here in 2026, like, everyone runs their own... Not everyone, but, you know, so many people- Absolutely ... and it seems to be so easy to do. So I think we were that middle generation where we were starting to see a different way of doing things, and yet school, and still to this day, let's be honest, sets you up to get a job and work for other people.
Mm-hmm. Interestingly, I- I never had aspirations to run my own business at all. And I don't know if it was I didn't have aspirations or I never believed that I could or would do that. I didn't know anyone- Or even thought of it ... who'd run one. Like, you know, the idea might not have even been there, right?
Yeah. And yet you look now, and it's, you know, even my, my nieces and nephews who are kind of growing up now, [00:12:00] like, they're looking around and seeing so many people run their own businesses. Mm. And, like, that brings with it a whole k- host of things. It's, I think the bit for me was I wasn't miserable at work.
I loved my job. Mm. I loved my, you know, I loved the team, I loved the impact I could have. Like you, I was looking at the next levels going, "Really? I don't... Gosh, do I want what that brings?" But I know I want more. Yeah. What is more? And I think- Mm ... I think it's really interesting that, well, interesting and also a bit of a shame, you know, we're almost expected in our late teens, early 20s, to know what the rest of our lives look like.
You know, I- Mm-hmm ... everything for me in terms of priorities and desires, if you like, shifted in my late 30s, early 40s. Yeah. And, and when we're in our 40s, a lot of people say, you know, "That's when I got the clarity, and I realized what's important." But I also wouldn't change any of it, and I will say that really clearly.
Yes. I, I often get asked, "Do you wish you'd found coaching in your 20s?" No, I, I wouldn't be anywhere near the coach I am now if I'd started in my 20s. No, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So- I completely [00:13:00] agree, and I think that's one of the things we can often feel like, oh, I should've, could've, would've. Yeah. Um, you know, why aren't I there yet?
Why did I wait so long? And, and you can have those thoughts, but then the answer to that is, but you wouldn't have been the same version of you- Exactly ... starting, and you wouldn't have the knowledge and the experience. Yeah. And every time that that's happened to me, because we all have those thoughts, I mean, I've had them many times like, damn it, you know, why didn't I start this so long ago?
But 'cause I started as my second child was born. Of course. So I've got a three-year-old running around, I've got a brand-new baby. I- While I've already got an online business. It was just a little, you know, side hustle. Why don't I start a new one? I'm like, okay, let, high achiever, um, I'm not sure. Um, just give myself the ultimate challenge.
But you know, when you look back, you think- But those 20 years that I spent in corporate, while that, while I've shut the chapter on that and there's a new chapter that opened, that actually got me to the point of [00:14:00] being a valuable coach for people because- Right ... I have, I have literally, uh, launched products, launched brands, business- brand-new businesses.
I've done the highest level of corporate with all the red tape and all of the you know, the banking industry and all of that stuff, and I've done tech startups. Like, I've been in all these different environments. I, I've understood it. Yeah. And that brings with it just so different perspectives, right?
That you can bring- 100% ... to other people that you just don't- Yeah ... have if you're fresh and you've got no experience. And it's interesting you say that because I was the same. I remember leaving corporate and almost feeling like I had to put that in a box on the side. You know, I'm a coach now, and, and I think there was a little bit of imposter syndrome in the entre- entrepreneurial space and fear of judgment from the corporate space.
So I went through this transitional piece where I'm like, they're all look- I'm just convinced everybody that I'd ever worked with in corporate was looking at me like, "What is she doing? What?" Yeah. I know. And everybody over here was looking at me like, "Well, she doesn't know what she's doing." And for about [00:15:00] six months while I found my way, I rarely referenced my previous experience.
But- Yeah ... what, what that gave me, my... 'Cause I was in operations, so very much operationally led, you know, ver- delivery, um, lots of multi-multitasking. Yeah. And you're wondering how is it relevant, right? I think that was the thing as well. But, my God, did it set me up well- Yeah ... when you come in here and wear all the hats.
Mm. Because actually, and I've got this phrase that used to be my Achilles heel has become my, what's become my superpower in, in entrepreneurial world. I built a career on being kind of the master of nothing, the jack of all trades. That's what you do in operations. You have to l- understand so much. Yeah, yeah.
And I came into this world, and actually I picked things up really quickly. And so what happened was other founders were saying to me, "Well, how have you got to that stage so quickly? How are you doing that? How do you know that?" And, and thinking I'd been doing it a lot longer, and that's how founders started working with me.
Mm. 'Cause I thought I'd just worked with execs from the corporate space. So it's really interesting, but I, it took me- Yeah ... ages to join the dots, I think is what I'm saying. Yeah. And then [00:16:00] suddenly I said to someone, "Well, I worked in corporate for 25 years." And I remember this person saying, "Wow, I thought you'd been doing this-" for years- Yeah
and I was about nine months in. Yeah. Um, and that was the day I was like, "Right, okay, we gotta bring this back out and bring it back together." Which is why I kind of, you know, it's very naturally evolved into, yes, a version of myself, but I don't recognize that person anymore. And yet, let me be really clear, I'm not a coach who has all her sorted.
Um, we've all got stuff. Um- Got it ... yeah, it's really interesting how it's all organically very much come together. Yeah, exactly. And I think that that's such a common thing to not really know how to join the two. You know, you've- Yeah ... kind of gone this, you've made a big step out of one space into something that is quite different.
Mm-hmm. Your experience is relevant, but I think I went through the exact same thing of not really talking about it, and then someone's going to me, "Why are you not saying all of these things?" Like, or- Yeah ... you know, you've got so much there, it's so valuable, there's so much credibility- Mm-hmm ... [00:17:00] in what you experienced before you became a coach.
Yeah. And I, here I was treating myself like it was a brand new here I am- Right ... brand new, day one- I'm starting from scratch- ... with nothing ... I don't know anything. Yeah. I know. And it's like, well, that's not really the case. Um, so I'm curious, why do you think, you know, this is the work that you do with people- Yeah
so why do we have, um, I will call it self-doubt? You know, even you're achieving great results- You know what you want. You're someone who's obviously a high achiever. You're gung-ho. You've got, uh, motivation. You've definitely got cap- capability coming out of your ears. Um, but why do we have that self-doubt, like doubting everything?
Yeah. So, so there's a couple of answers. The first one I w- I will just state really clearly, that success doesn't necess- or achievement. Let's use the word achievement. Achievement doesn't necessarily equal belief in yourself, okay? Mm-hmm. And whilst, and I hate the word should, but it's just come to mind, I wish that I could help people see actually it does.
It doesn't, and it doesn't. [00:18:00] And what I mean by that is we don't join those dots, like we just said. Yeah. So I think what I see is, particularly in the current world, a bit of our generation, you know, maybe the generation just behind us, so many incredible women are doing brilliantly, but they've done th- so through overworking, over-proving, perfectionism, people pleasing.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And so they've almost got to the stage now where they think that's the only way to be successful. So that's the first piece. And I don't think it's easy to be successful. I wanna be really clear about that. And let's also just, side note, success is whatever it means to you. So let's be really clear.
We've gotta be- Yes ... we've gotta be really clear for ourselves, what is success? Yeah. But high achieving women, let's call it that, ambitious, successful, whatever the right word is, I think we do live in this time where so many have felt like they've had to work so hard for it, they don't know any other way.
Mm-hmm. And that automatically feeds, "Well, clearly I'm not actually good enough. I have to work really hard, [00:19:00] people please," et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. So I think that's the starting point. But actually the irony of all of that is that belief, the best way to kind of rewire beliefs and actually build your own belief in yourself is to look at the very evidence of what you can achieve.
And I'm a very- Mm-hmm ... practical coach, and when I talk about mindset, I will talk often about the science of our brain. Mm-hmm. And so much of the work I do is helping people realize that they have been running a story on repeat for so long, it's become their truth. Yeah. I.e., when you started at 20 years of age, and you know what?
Maybe it was really tough, and you did have to work all the hours just to show those other, let's go with a, you know, very stereotypical story, Shelley- Mm-hmm ... all the guys that you were just as good. Yeah. That doesn't mean that's the story that you have to play out now. Yeah. And that's why I help people realize that you can, this is gonna sound so cheesy, you can rewrite your story today and live by a new story, but it's not quite as simple as I just said it [00:20:00] So does that answer?
I, yeah, I just think that- Yeah ... we carry, so many of us are carrying years of a story that's not necessarily the true story anymore, and that's why we, we doubt. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely relate to that. I think, do, you know what's really curious, is I'm not sure if you ha- had this experience or you've had clients who had it, but in, you know, you make the decision, you're gonna leave, and you walk out of the door and, and effectively you start this new chapter.
And you can feel like, "Okay, I've, I've left that behind." It didn't take, it wasn't overnight for me. It probably took a good couple of years to properly- Mm-hmm ... properly close the old chapter- Mm, mm-hmm ... and release things and all of the stuff that went with that. Because while I, I made the decision There's still, uh, like it's a huge shift of everything that you've known, everything who you were.
Yes. Yeah. You know, you probably tied your identity in, in part to- 100% ... the role that you had, right? And so you're, you're now [00:21:00] then going, "Well, now I've thrown that away, and that was sort of who I am." And so there's this- Right. Who am I now? ... becoming of, of yourse- of you, and I think part of it is the unbecoming of who you were- Yes
to become who you are, right? And then here's the weird thing that I thought I'll share now because it was, it's kind of relevant. I'm nine years since I started, and at the start of this year I realized that I was still holding onto some of the things that I, I guess made me successful in my corporate life.
Yeah. That w- it, it wasn't the identity. I've, I'd got rid of the identity part, but there was, uh, safety in- Yeah ... knowing things, safety in being capable, being able to do things. Um, the high- the actual just being the high achiever, there was safety in that because that is what created my career and, you know, knowing stuff and be- you know, knowing more and being a, being a fast learner, all of these things.
And I've gone, oh my gosh, I, [00:22:00] m- my attachment to that has actually then caused these other things to happen in my business. And I, I just had this, like, major, like, oh my goodness. And so I've then gone through another shedding of, like, I've gotta do- Shedding ... nine years later from all of this stuff, and isn't that interesting?
Like, I don't know, you could probably understand more about that than I. Well, and I think it's so common. It's so common, and I think you said, you know, 20 years in corporate. I think one of the things I always say to people really practically is if you've spent a period of time in w- uh, in, uh, I think sometimes the word corporate doesn't help as well.
So in an employed role. Yeah, in a business. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. In a bus- in anything, right? You know, that has become your way of being, your identity- Yeah ... your way of behaving, being, doing, et cetera, et cetera. You know, I still know, I'm six years into running my business, and I absolutely, like total transparency, I still struggle with the work hard piece.
And what I mean by that is the, the fact that I run a business now [00:23:00] that means I don't have to work from 7:00 AM in the morning till 7:00 o'clock at night. Not every single day. You know, if there's something big going on, maybe I'll put some extra in. I don't have to, but oh my gosh, do I feel inside me that, that little voice of old, like- Guilt.
you're a part-timer, like not doing something is lazy. Yeah. You should always be busy because I spent 25 years busy In fact, I couldn't fit everything in Yeah And so, but, but from a just really rational perspective, you know, I also remind myself that was 25 years of ingrained behavior. I've been doing this six.
Okay? Definitely. Takes time to let go of these things. And even when you think that you've, I use the word shedding quite a lot. Even when you think you've shedded something- Mm-hmm ... it sneaks back. It's not gone forever. It's still there in the deep recesses of your mind. Yeah. Mm-hmm And it comes back. So people beat themselves up for this, and I'm like, "Don't beat yourself up.
And don't fight it. Just learn to go, 'Okay, I see you.' You know, it's still happening, but..." And I, I have to say, two things can be true at the same time, right? Mm-hmm. I can absolutely be an [00:24:00] ambitious, hardworking at the core of me always, and that's some of my strengths, but I can also be a business owner who's built something that enables and allows her, gives us- give, give myself permission to not work all the hours, not be at my desk at 7:00 AM every single morning- Mm
if that's what I choose. Yeah. But the biggest part of that is choice, and so many women particularly, but generally humans, but let's talk women. So many women struggle to give themselves permission to choose. Yes. And that's what it always comes back to. Mm. Permission to choose. Because actually- Yeah ... we have been taught, trained, societally conditioned- To ask for permission
yeah, and we don't come first. Yeah. And I think even, you know, I'd love you to talk about this for a minute because when I think about permission, I think we've been trained not to trust ourselves- Mm-hmm ... enough to give ourselves permission. Yeah. And women in particular, 'cause I work with women as well, and that's something that I see and have experienced myself.
But why, why do you think [00:25:00] that is? Like, can you... Where does that come from? Gosh, there's a question. I, I don't know that I have the definitive answer. Mm. Um, you know, my answer to all of these things will always be, we've all learned in our lives whatever we've learned, and that I'm not saying what we've learned is right or wrong- Mm
but it might not be right for you right now. And so that's kind of how I always start everything with wo- when I'm working with people. This piece about permission, women particularly, we, we've got hundreds, thousands of years of societal conditioning. Let's start there, right? What was woman's role- Absolutely.
Mm-hmm ... back, you know, in the very beginning? And so- To obey. Right. Okay. And, and certainly not to lead yourself first, which is a phrase I use quite a lot. You know, I talk about self-leadership- Mm ... which I know you've, you know, you've me- mentioned a couple times and may come up. What I mean by that is actually- Mm
lead yourself first. You know, l- listen to yourself, trust yourself. Trusting yourself doesn't mean you're right. [00:26:00] Trusting yourself means that you don't need everybody else's view. Trusting yourself means that you're giving yourself permission to be okay with whatever does or doesn't happen, and I guess that's the point.
But, but actually I think we've got societal conditioning. We've all got our own stories, experiences, you know, everything that we've learned and therefore come to believe. Yeah. And it's easier not to- Because actually it's easier to let others lead us, and then it's not our responsibility. And that's a hard truth for everybody.
But if you're really honest, most people- Mm ... rather someone else tells us what to do because then it's on them and I can say, "Well, you know, I just did what you said and it didn't." You know? Yes. That probably makes sense as an answer, but- Yes. Uh, so much sense. And I've got two questions. Um, the first one, I guess...
So we're, you know, the duality of self-leadership. So I'm gonna trust myself. It may not be the right answer, [00:27:00] but I'm gonna trust my, myself. And then at the same time we're always told always be learning, be open, be asking questions, you know- Mm-hmm ... and literally listening to other people, right? So it's almost like- Yes
we've got two ends of the spectrum, and they feel like they're in direct conflict, but we're, we're told to be doing both of them. And- Yes. Yeah. Talk to me about- Right. You're so- ... how does this all fit in here? You're so right. And, and this is where I think people get themselves in such a pickle- Yeah
because of that. And I guess my answer would be there's a sweet spot in the middle. Mm. So absolutely be curious. You know, look to... There's this phrase, isn't there, success leaves clues. You know, look to what others are doing. But actually what I mean by trust yourself is trust yourself to decide what to do with that.
Trust yourself. If something doesn't feel right, then it's not right for you. Because this is... And this could go in a number of directions. I've been doing a lot of work and speaking quite openly at the moment about the noise in the online space. Yeah. And [00:28:00] that so many people get kind of so, so wrapped up in it that they think that they're getting it wrong because that person says I should do that, and I did that, and it didn't work.
But that's because not everything is right for you. And so this trust yourself is- I don't like the word intuition. I just have resistance to using it, but I think that is the right word. It... What I mean is absolutely be curious, okay? Mm-hmm. Absolutely listen to your own thoughts. Mm. Trust yourself to decide, and trust yourself that you'll be okay w- with whatever the outcome of the decision is.
There you go. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Okay. I like that, and I think, you know, that relates to something that I've seen a lot as well, where you mentioned just a moment ago, people are kind of saying, "Well, tell me what to do." Yes. And right now there's, uh, I think even, you know, it's... Everything's gone faster since AI.
Yes. We've got this, like, all this information, right? You can get the information from AI. It can give you answers. Mm-hmm. And [00:29:00] there's a lot of people, I think, just taking that and going, "Well, that's what to do then." Yeah. And, and sort of having no filter, nothing of themselves. And, and maybe they don't feel that they, um, have the insight, the mastery, the experience, the knowledge to make those decisions, but that's really where I think there's a gap between AI and maybe even working with a coach.
Um, you... And this is... And I wa- I just wanted to say something else about this and, and ask you for your thoughts on it too, is- I think that there's a, I've heard so many horror stories of people saying, "Well, I signed up with this coach and they told me to do this." And I'm like, "Why are they telling you- Unnecessary
to do something?" Yeah. Oh my goodness. It just gets my back up so quickly. I'm like, they should never be telling you what to do. They should be helping you to make the decisions, um, that are right for you based on what you actually want, you know? One, one of my clients actually was told to start a totally different business.
Like she she [00:30:00] was- I've had that ... she came in to help people- I've had that, I've had people come to me with that too. Yep. Yep. And I'm like, that is insanity. But I actually think that, you know, and maybe, and tell me what your thoughts are, but now that you've just said it's this lack of ability to give yourself permission to make the decisions, so they are literally giving the coach, "Well you tell me what to do, you make the decision for me."
So maybe that's what's happening in those situations. Do you feel like that the person has given away their own- Yeah ... decision-making to someone else, and then that the consequences of that is diabolical. Like they literally are not happy with the outcome. So how do we bre- how do we move from that place where you've been trained to not make your own decisions, you've been asked for permission for everything and, and to- Well I think-
reign it back and, and to start having more control of it? I think that the, the starting point of all of it is people getting clear on [00:31:00] what it is they're trying to achieve. So we said that piece out, you know, their, their version of success. Yeah. And I think, obviously, we're living in a world where we're seeing everybody else's version of success, and I think we even start to question wh- whether I'm wanting enough and why, you know, I should be going for that.
But- Yeah ... hard truth is I think too many people, and I'm about to make a very sweeping statement, but, but too many people- Don't, I don't think don't want to, but actually I'm saying don't want to, but the, want it quicker than it comes. Yeah. And like you said earlier, everything's moving faster. Mm. Yes, but results aren't necessarily.
Yeah. And yet everybody will tell you that you can get it quicker than ever these days. Mm. You can get information quicker than ever, but the reality is there's so much information that actually more and... I, what I'm seeing is more and more people are struggling to make the decisions. Yeah. And the results aren't coming as quickly as- No
we want them to, or perhaps even they used to. And that's a bit of an anecdotal statement, and that's when then people question themselves. So this becomes this massive vicious circle- [00:32:00] Yes ... because people seem to think that if I do what I'm told, I should get the results straight away. And then when I don't get the results straight away, firstly I'm frustrated because you told me to do that and it didn't work, but also I'm frustrated at me.
It's clearly me that's the problem. And so we get in this massive mess. Yeah. And, and actually I think the first and foremost, and this is the hardest piece for coaches right now, 'cause everything you said I agree with. You know, my role as a coach isn't to tell someone what to do. Mm. It is to help them brainstorm and work through ideas and options to work through which the one, which is the right one for you right now.
Yeah. And whilst I have clients literally say to me, "Just tell me," I'm like, "I can't tell you because what I'm- No ... if I tell you, what I'm really saying is what I would do is this." Yeah. Not this is what you could, should do. You are the only person that really knows. I can help you work that out, but I can't tell you.
Yeah. Mm. Um, but I do think that people have been trained, I think we, that we live in a world now where we're almost trained that results should come quicker, and when they don't, we think it's us that's [00:33:00] getting it wrong. So that's, I think that's a really big issue right now. Yes. Yeah. Um, and that then feeds this, well, I don't trust myself because clearly I don't know how to make this happen quicker, and she appears to have achieved the very things that I say I want, therefore surely I should believe.
Does that make sense? Yeah. And that's where I think it's all just... I think it's got really messy. I really do. I think the online space, as much as it's a love/hate piece, right? I think it's the most- Totally ... incredible tool. You know? Yeah. And online isn't just social media. Online, that this is an amazing tool.
Yeah. I'm having a conversation with you across continents. But like anything, every strength overplayed becomes an opportunity, and the strength of the online space overplayed becomes a real challenge for us too. Mm. Um, I'm not sure if I answered the question fully, but I, I kind of- No ... everything in a melting pot there.
Yeah, exactly. Uh, and there's so many places that we can go in there, but, um, I think that we're both clearly on the same page and, it... You can just sort of see, [00:34:00] you can see it happening where you o- you go onto... Well, I, I love Threads at the moment. I think the, uh, you know, I've always been someone who I read a lot and, and things like that.
So it's a platform that works for me. But anytime someone's like, "Oh, here are five prompts that you can put in and get this result," and people are just, oh, look, they're sharing it, and I'm like, "Guys, if things aren't working in your business, the five prompts are not gonna change the fact- Exactly ... they're muggery.
Yeah. They are gonna do zero for you. Like- Exactly ... if it's not working, stop jumping going, "This must be the thing I need. Oh, maybe they've got better prompts." It's like, no. The, it's the foundation. If you, if you aren't clear on who you're talking to, if you don't have something that they want, if you haven't dialed in the, that core foundation and even really know who you are and who you're meant to be and what your expertise is that makes you different, none of it's gonna make a difference.
And I, I'm like, I could say that 10 times, 100 times- Well, and- ... 1,000 times. And obviously marketing is your thing, right? Yeah. And, and s- the two things are screaming in my head. I was actually having a similar conversation with a fellow marketeer last week, and [00:35:00] we were saying that I think people are also telling themselves that you have to be uniquely different.
Look, let's be really honest. There is someone else out there doing what you do. The only thing that is truly uniquely different about you is you. Yeah. And if you're trying to find your way of being so different from the market, keep going, but you're never gonna find it. Actually just trust that you are enough, and that's, that's a really important part.
And I've totally forgotten what I was gonna say on the second piece. It was gonna be two bits, but who knows what the second piece was. But I think that's really, you know... The, we are in a, in a, an environment now where there are gonna be other people doing what you do, but they're not gonna do it the way you do it.
Yeah. And that's the bit. I know what I was gonna say. I talk about three Ps quite a lot in my business, and people don't like the reality of this: persistence, perseverance, and patience. You know, it's obviously about, you know, 20 years in corporate, 25 years in corporate. Mm. I really gave myself a hard time in the first year of my business, 'cause I hadn't made 100K, 'cause that's what [00:36:00] everyone out there was telling me that I was clearly gonna do.
And then I was like, hang on a second, it took me 25 years to get to the six figure and beyond salary in my corporate. Yeah. Why did I think for a second I could do that in 12 months? Like, why did I think I could ... Like now, whilst I've done it- Yeah ... quicker than the 25-year corporate- Of course ... you, you know, there's, again, rational logic that why- Mm-hmm.
Everything. Yeah ... yeah, absolutely. And that's all it starts. And then you think, where does it come from, right? Yeah. It's, it's from random people who you don't even know saying- Yeah ... strange things. And, and half of it's- Yeah ... not even true. Like, there's- And this is why it comes back to itself ... they ... Result of, yeah.
Self. Self-leadership. Trust yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Because actually you lose yourself when you- Mm. And I'm not saying ... Look, let ... I'm being really clear. Be curious. D- invest into yourself, yes. And I'm not saying, hey, you must have a co- ... Well, I am actually. I think all people should have a coach. I have coaches. I have coaches too, right?
But I've got a coach, I work with a mentor, I've got marketing sup- ... I've got experts in my business to help me where I'm not the expert, but that's taken time to get there. [00:37:00] But fundamentally, at the core of it, I am me, and this is what I want to stand for, this is how I want to be perceived and seen, and this is what I want to do.
And that has to stay the root of everything. Um- Mm. And I'll, you know, I'll admit it's taken me time to get there too. Yeah, absolutely. And, um, you know, it's such an interesting thing. I agree with you on the, um, positioning and the differentiation, but you actually kind of almost ... You said the thing that makes you different is you, and it's not just you, like, ta-da, this is me, but it
You said it, it's your way. Yeah. And that is the piece I think so many people miss on their, where they're doing their positioning. They've kind of specialized, but then they're still in this generic specialization where, you know, you're sounding the same, you're looking the same, even your offerings look the same because you've probably based them off what you've seen competitors doing.
Exactly. And it's like, you are just a different shade of gray, the same as, as all of that. It ... And it, thi- [00:38:00] that is the real piece that s- is obvious and not obvious at the same time. Yes. It's a dialing- Yes ... into you. What makes you different from them? And, and for everybody it is something different. It's like drawing out that uniqueness.
It might be the way you do something. It might be your unique skill set and other things that you bring in that other people in your space don't have or don't do. Mm-hmm. There is something for everybody there that, you know, it's not like you're gonna be remarkably different, like, oh, it's a whole new species have arrived on the planet and we've never seen it before.
Um, but you can stand apart once you dive into that. And, um- Yeah ... yeah, it doesn't have to be, like you say, it's, it is such a funny conversation that goes on. But- Yeah ... what are, you know, if you're thinking there's women out there who are feeling stuck in the life that they have and secretly wanting a, a different life, what would be your main advice for them?
How do you- Oh, big question. Yeah. Uh, so I think the [00:39:00] first thing I would say to anybody, similar to as I've said already, is, you know, if, if, if you are sitting there right now kind of feeling life isn't fulfilled right now, f- I don't feel fulfilled, uh, something's not right, something's off- Mm ... actually, I'm gonna use the word permission, and it's giving yourself permission to admit to what you do want.
And, and this is a really important part- Yeah ... because otherwise what people do is they start making shifts and changes. Mm. I always say, you know, you don't get in a car and start driving if you don't know the destination, right? That doesn't mean you have to know where you want your life to be in 10 years, but like if you think about life right now, what would you like it to be like?
What would you li- what do you want that you don't have? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How do you wanna feel that you don't currently feel? What do you wanna be doing that you're not currently doing? That doesn't mean throw the baby out with the bath water and, you know, start changing everything. But you've got to have kind of a North Star, a k- you know, where are you trying to get to?
Yeah. So that's the first thing. Mm-hmm. And most women struggle with that because here we go again back into this piece about we're not, we've not been encouraged to say what we want. [00:40:00] I'm not saying put it out there to the world, I'm saying tell yourself. That's the first thing I would say, just to yourself.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. And don't just keep it in, in here in your mind. Sorry, I just pointed to my brain and this is, you know, audio as well as visual. Um, write it down, even if it's just for you. Get yourself a lovely notebook and write down。 There's a great exercise you'll have heard of it that loads of people use, which is just, you know, if you allowed yourself to imagine the ideal day, and I don't mean the unrealistic, "I live on an island and I never work."
Unless that's your world. But actually, what does an ideal day look like for you? Yeah. Like, what are some of the best days now? If you could create more of those, just, you know, just give yourself permission to start there. Mm-hmm. That's what I would do. Because that's when you can then go, "Okay. What is completely out of alignment right now?"
Yeah. And that's your starting point. Yeah, yeah. But I will say, and clearly I'm a coach, I'm gonna say this, don't try and do all this on your own. That is the number one thing, and too many people do. And that's when we get inside our own heads and talk ourselves out of things. You know? Yeah, yeah. Go find someone, even if it's just a [00:41:00] friend you trust as a starting point.
I'm not saying go spend thousands on working with a coach. I'm saying tell someone, because that someone might be able to just help you start giving yourself permission to believe you can make some changes. Yeah, that's such good advice. You know, it's so interesting, uh, and I, I encourage everybody to think back in, in your life because no doubt you've had many, many years of it, um, if you're listening to us still.
Um, but you know, look back and think, well, when in your life have you decided on something that you wanted? Right. Yeah. And then did it happen or not? Right. Because I look back on my life and I'm like, there were times I decided on something that was, seemed crazy at the time, like wild, wacky. You know, I was 18, I'm like, "I'm gonna move to London and go and live over there."
And literally within that year I did it. And I hadn't necessarily put a timeframe on it, but it, once I decided I, that's what I was doing, it happened. Like the things- Yeah ... [00:42:00] fell into place. Yeah. I had a friend, they were going and we, I was like, bang, okay, l- then I'm doing it now. And I just did it. Like I went and booked the ticket and did the things, and next thing I know, I'm in London with, uh, nowhere to live and no job and no one.
And I got a little- Bless you ... job on the pub, as you do when you're 18. Right. You find your way, right? Yeah. But it's like, and that's just one time. I actually did that move o- to the other side of the globe, uh, six times, 'cause I went, came back again, then I went over again, then I came back. And lit- you know, packed up life and just decided I'm starting fresh on the other side of the world.
And there's been other things as well. And, and each time I'm like when- whenever I've decided on it, I made it happen. And- Yeah ... I think that's the thing that, you know, because the first thing that I thought of when you were talking about that a minute ago is we will talk ourselves out of it. We'll go- Right
what is it I really want? Oh, I'd love, you know, I wanna live at the coast. And you go, oh, but that's unrealistic because, you know- Right. Exactly ... how can I afford to do that? [00:43:00] Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And literally your brain instantly will go into all the reasons why you can't. Right? Yeah. And that was one of the things- Because it's safer.
Yeah. Because it'll just go, no, no, that's something new. It's unknown, it's different, it's scary. Um, it's easier to be where you are because that's what you know. Um- Mm. Right ... interestingly, that was one of my goals. You said like starting the business. I was like, why am I doing this? I was like, right, I wanna, I wanna live at the beach because I was living in Brisbane at the time in the city.
Um, and I want to travel a lot, um, because I love traveling and- And I can't remember the other one. Uh, I just wanted to have a lot of time at home with the kids. Yeah. And within 18 months we, we'd moved- Right ... to the coast, and it was like, bang. It was just that decision, right? The first step. And I think I would just add to this, if anyone's listening and going, "Okay, okay, but you know, they're really big things."
Like, I can't think of anything that I've decided and made happen. It doesn't have to be that big. And I think it's funny because I'm listening and going, "Well, I've not moved ac- well, I have moved across the world, as we know, but you know, I didn't in my 18." But, uh, to the very point you made there, I think there is such [00:44:00] power in giving yourself a moment to reflect back.
Like, you know, generally as coaches, we talk about the past is done, you know, but there's lots to learn from it, but it's all about future. But there's a great book called The Gap and The Gain, and this, the principle of The Gap and The Gain, of course, is to really look at where you've come from and gained rather than just focusing on where you are, have not gotten to.
Yeah. And so whilst I'm like, you know, what is success for you? To the very point you make there, I think there's so much power in then, and I, and I guess my build on it is if your listeners is going, "Well, I can't think of when did I make a decision and I made it happen. I don't feel like I have." Actually, even if you just took a look at your life five years ago and think about where you were five years ago, what you were doing, what was going on- Mm-hmm
and where you are now, you can very quickly start to see the amount you've grown, the amount you have affected in terms of your life. Mm-hmm. There may be bits you're like, "Okay, I, I just kind of somehow ended up with that bit." That's fine. But actually, even just that process of- Taking a glance backward and a real kind of, crikey, [00:45:00] five years ago, this...
You know, six years ago- Mm ... I wasn't running a business. I wasn't living in Dubai. I wasn't doing a lot of the things that I'm doing now. Some of those I've absolutely gone, "That's what I wanna make happen." Some have happened more by chance. Mm. But equally, all shows me what's possible. And I think that's the point there as well, showing yourself what is possible, and then if you add in a bit of intention to what's possible, you become practically unstoppable.
Yeah, exactly. And I think it, you know, one of the things that I've found is you don't have to necessarily put a timeframe on it, that- No ... you know, you can just say, "This is what I want to happen." And it's amazing when you release any attachment to when, how quickly it can actually happen, you know? Yeah, agreed.
Because that was something, you know... When you make those decisions, you can make them without knowing all the how. The how kind of figures itself out, right? Absolutely. It's like, make the decision. That's what I want. Bang, um, I'm doing it at some point, whenever that may, may be. [00:46:00] And, um, I always find it so interesting once you've done that how the world almost contrives to allow that to happen, and then, and enable it.
So yeah. Yeah, agreed. It's quite interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I love that. So for someone who's thinking, "Okay, well, how much am I... Do I have any leadership skills? Am I doing self-leadership? Where, where are the gaps? What do I do?" Um, what could, what could you say to help them? Yeah. So, so let's talk about this term self-leadership, 'cause it's starting to be banded around a lot, or my brain is noticing it because I use it quite a lot.
Let- Yeah ... you know, who knows? Um, but when I'm talking about self-leadership, we talked a bit about trust. A, a large part of self-leadership, lead yourself first, is a phrase I've used, is self-awareness. Mm-hmm. You know, we've got to... And this is about honesty with ourselves. You know, we've talked about permissions and trust and things.
Yeah. This is all linked in. I believe that the most powerful skill in life is knowing yourself and understanding yourself. That's why I'm so passionate about mindset. The work I do in [00:47:00] mindset isn't put it out to the universe and it will happen. It is understand what's going on in your mind that is either getting in the way of you doing that or could be leveraged to help you do that.
That's what self-leadership is about. So there are many ways that you can seek to understand more about yourself. There's lots of, you know, things. I, myself, have a really simple, um, online, let's call it a little quiz, that I've created which actually helps people- Understand top level a little bit about kind of their behaviors.
So I've kind of created like personas. Yeah. So I've got like the restless achiever, the, the analytic thinker, and then some people will be going, "Oh yeah, that's me," straight away as I just say those two things. There's lots and lots of personality tests, diagnostics out there. Yeah. Fundamentally, this is about starting to understand in daily life, in my business, what are the things I do?
And actually, what are the patterns that are there that probably give me more insight into- [00:48:00] Who I am currently. You used that word identity earlier on, because none of this means that's who you are and that's it. And my belief, very strongly, is that we all have huge amounts of strengths, we all have opportunities.
And the key in life and business is to learn how to leverage our strengths and navigate our opportunities, whether that's get someone else to do something or learn how to dial up and dial down. And that's what self-leadership is about. Self-leadership is about learning about yourself and learning where do I dial up, where do I dial down in order to achieve the things that I want to achieve.
Yeah. That's so great. I love that. But thank you. Um, I'll put the quiz in the show notes, so if you'd like to go and have a go at Shelley's quiz and, and sort of find out which one you are and then, you know, what you could do, I'm sure that there's some guidance there on what your- Absolutely ... steps are to, to start navigating, um, that forward, then please do that.
Um, the quiz sounds like a really great idea, so thank you, Shelley. Now, if [00:49:00] anyone wants to connect with you and find, um, hang out with you on social media, is there anywhere that you like to be? Where can they find you? Yeah. So my, uh, my favorite place to hang out is Instagram. I'm very visual, so Instagram works for me from that perspective.
Yeah. So I'm absolutely everywhere on Instagram. I'm very easy to find, just go search Shelley Bosworth and I will come up very quickly at the top. Um, I mean, I'm on, I'm on all the platforms. Um, and I've got my own podcast, the She Is Courageous podcast. So if anyone wants to come and have a listen to a little bit more about kind of leading yourself, a bit of- Mm-hmm
sometimes hard-hitting truths that we need, holding up the mirror. Um, but yeah, Instagram is my favorite place to hang out. I'm always over there. Awesome. Love that. Oh, so good. So you'll find Shelley's podcast and her Instagram as well in the show notes. Um, please scroll down and go and check them out. It sounds like, um, a great podcast.
I'm now curious to have a look at that myself. Um, but yeah, amazing. Thank you so much for joining us today, Shelley. My pleasure. Um, is there anything final that you'd like to leave us with? Any- Oh, gosh ... nugget at all? [00:50:00] But well, let me say thank you for having me, and it's been such a great conversation.
There's so many directions we could have gone on in- I know ... because we're clearly on a very similar page. Mm-hmm. I think, look, my final thoughts for anyone are, the cheesy line is just remember that you're enough, you know? It's- Mm-hmm ... it, it's not easy running a business these days. That doesn't mean I subscribe to the woe is me, it's really tough, but it's also not easy.
If it were easy, everyone would be doing it, okay? Yes. And not everyone is. Mm-hmm. But I come back to those three words. You know, whatever you are up to in your business, wherever you're at, persist, persevere, and be patient. And patient doesn't mean just hope it'll be okay. Patient means trust yourself that- Absolutely.
Yeah ... you're doing the right things, that it will come good for you Love that. Trust in the process. It will- Trust the process. Yeah ... I think I, I agree. I'm like, things happen at the time for a reason, and you don't always know what it is at the time. Um, but if it's not happening- All the time ... then there's something that is still there for you to learn or to gain before you can move forward, and, um, I, you know, I think that's such a great...
I love [00:51:00] those three points. Well, and it, and it links perfectly to, as you said, you know, we... There is a very sh- there's a very big difference between, you know, we are victims of circumstances or we are the very results of everything that we've experienced so far. You know, everything that we've gone through- Mm-hmm
the good, the bad, and the, you know, all the bits in between make us who we are right now. But we also get to choose right here, right now how we continue moving forward, and that's really important. Yes. Oh, goodness, that's almost a whole episode on its own. But I love it. Absolutely. You're dropping that in at the end.
Thank you, Shelley. Um, we'll talk to you soon. Thank you. Thanks.
