Jessica Osborn [00:00:00]:
If you have a message that you'd love to share with more people and you get really excited about the idea and the possibility maybe having a best selling book or even having a TEDx talk that you've been accepted for and have produced, then stay tuned because today's episode we're talking all about the pathways to becoming a TEDx speaker. Some insights into what makes your pitch accepted so that you can actually do a TEDx talk. The absolute latest requirements that they have right now because it has changed over the last 18 months, then this episode is something that you're going to absolutely love. So stay tuned. It's coming right up now. Joining me today on the podcast to talk to you all about that pathway to TEDx and having a best selling book is Sarah Canal who is the founder of the Thought Leader Academy. She's a five time best selling author herself and now she helps coaches, experts, entrepreneurs to scale, impact and create six to seven figures in their business by becoming best selling authors and in demand TEDx speakers themselves. She has been featured on Oprah, in New York Times, Good Morning America Today, Forbes, wow, all the big brands, Entrepreneur Magazine.
Jessica Osborn [00:01:22]:
She is an absolute gem, really amazing to listen to and she shares so many insights on the real truth behind what it takes to get on the TEDx stage. And guess what, it's actually not as scary as you might think. And they are really big on real humans, authentic humans. You don't have to be a big stage speaker already, somebody who's got a polished pitch perfect delivery because that's not what it's all about as Sarah is about to share with you. So without further ado, let me play this interview for you. Make sure you stay through to the end because while we get into a discussion about AI and how that's impacting people's trust and also what the industry is doing to ensure that people are not producing AI, that people are not publishing books produced by AI. So make sure you stay for that one. It's a really great conversation about when to use AI in these sort of processes and when not to use it, and how you can absolutely leverage the ability to build more trust through having your own book and that TEDX talk.
Jessica Osborn [00:02:40]:
Sam.
Jessica Osborn [00:03:23]:
So I'm here today with the lovely Sarah Canal who is the CEO, the chief person in charge of Thought Leader Academy. Welcome Sarah. How are you? So good to be on the podcast today.
SARA CONNELL [00:03:36]:
I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Jessica Osborn [00:03:39]:
Yes, well I'm really excited to talk to you all about, well, TEDx and you know, obviously the pathway to TEDx because I think it's always that thing that we think about, like, wow, it would be amazing to do that one day, someday. Is it even something I could do? I think we all put it up on a pedestal and you are clearly an exit in that. But before we dive into all of that good conversation, could you give us a bit of an background as to what your business is, who do you serve, what you do?
SARA CONNELL [00:04:09]:
Absolutely. So excited to dive into all TEDx and all things. Yes. So I, as you said, founder of NCO Thought Leader Academy, which is really an incredible community and process that we've created to help particularly women visionaries, women experts, entrepreneurs, coaches, leaders, you know, best selling author, TEDx Speaker. That's sort of the magic combo. And then you get the triple threat by adding your business behind the book or behind the, you know, whether someone has an existing business and then we use that thought leadership to scale and help them monetize to seven figures a year. Or if someone's, you know, maybe starting a new movement, think of it as like starting a movement. And then it's what would be that thing behind the book and the speaking that would, you know, people want to run events, do retreats, have a coaching program, a consultant looking at that piece.
SARA CONNELL [00:05:03]:
So we're really taking a year to help someone put those thought leader assets in place and either scale an existing business or launch a new thought leader business around, around that work. So I love it. I am, I am excited to get out of bed every morning and get to work with these incredible leaders. And it is just such an honor to see people who are already, you know, those of you listening to this, you know, you're an expert in your niche and your craft and it's just like letting you get that. I call it like 100x visibility. Right. Viral visibility. Because 10x is even too small for what this world is expecting of us now.
SARA CONNELL [00:05:41]:
Right. I looked at my brand and I thought, yeah, it's not a 10x, it's 100x. Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:05:47]:
Amazing. Yeah. I was going to ask, you know, what was the. How would someone know that they're ready for this? And you know, because you did mention maybe you've got an existing business or potentially even an existing book or something like that. There seem to be a lot of different starting points happening there. But how would someone listening feel like, like, yeah, I could do this even now. Like now would be a great time.
SARA CONNELL [00:06:10]:
You know, the common denominator for most of the people that I get to have the pleasure of working with is that you've hit this place where you know you're meant for more. Like, you know that you get incredible results in the work that you do. And there's that feeling of like, with the, this ecosystem of people that know us, right? And I know I hit that point and so many. And so you already, you're already awesome at what you do. You know that, right? But you know that not enough people know about you. Not enough people are aware. So, you know, whatever niche you're in, health, wellness, you know, you know, money, coaching, relationships, whatever it is, parenting, you know, you've got this, this message that's met, you know, and people feel it. Either like, I know I have that book in me, or I've, I see myself on the bigger stage and the point at which you just don't know how to get there.
SARA CONNELL [00:07:03]:
Like you said, it sort of feels like a someday sort of fantasy. And so our goal is to be that bridge and make that as easy and, and to fast track and accelerate that process. Because, you know, when I was putting all this work together, I was figuring it out like the machete through the jungle, like, okay, I got to figure out how to do a book and then I had to figure out how to go speak and get on the TEDx stage. And it was, it took a long time and it cost a lot of money and because I was piecemealing it all. And so a lot of our clients, I started with doing books with people, and then people said, look, I don't want to. I was sending them to a different person for speaking, a different TEDx, a different, like, can you just put it in one place? Right? And that's really our goal is let's do what took me 10 years and, you know, $100,000, let's do that in a year for a fraction of that amount. And so that's really, I think the way we know is that there's a, there's a yearning and, and sometimes even a pain at feeling like we haven't let all the music in us out, we haven't made our mark. It's really a lot about our legacy, right? It's like, what are we those things that, that are going to live beyond us, you know, and that's what's cool about books and other, you know, types of thought leadership that we can, that, that, that goes beyond us, right? It can like reach people across that we'd never reach.
Jessica Osborn [00:08:30]:
So true that feeling that it's like, well, there's so many people that I could help. And so many people who need to hear this and maybe, you know, thinking about things in a different way and you just want to be like, I just want to share this with you. And it can feel like it's almost impossible when you, you know, you're just there sitting behind the screen, doing all the social media and everything that everybody tells you to do that yet, you know, it's just not having that bigger reach, that bigger impact. Yeah, that's awesome. What's your background? Like, how did you, why did you start on the journey of even doing this for yourself in the first place? You know, what was your background before that?
SARA CONNELL [00:09:08]:
Absolutely. And it's funny because really my TEDx talk that I did, the most recent one, is really about this in a certain aspects that will kind of tie together where we're going to go. You know, what for me, just a really as succinct version as I can give, is that I wanted to be a writer when I was young. You know, I would read books that I loved all that, you know, the Brontes and, you know, these books. And I would, I would, oh, they were like, I want to do this. You know, and I had that, that desire. And most of the people I work with have zero desire. They actually don't want to write.
SARA CONNELL [00:09:36]:
That's not. They want, they want to, they want to be visible and help people with their mission. And so. But I was, I was someone who really wanted to. I did journals and wrote stories and poems and they're terrible poems, you know, bad, you know, but. Right. But I have this thing in my mind because I watched movies and read books about kids that became authors. And in those stories, what always happened is a teacher took the child aside and said, you're special.
SARA CONNELL [00:10:00]:
You're meant to be a writer. They give them secret books. And, you know, that's how it always happened in all the movies and the books. And when that happened for me, like there was no teacher that took me aside and sort of gave me that benediction or whatever. And so I didn't understand at the time, but I had given away the power. I thought I needed permission from someone. And I don't know if anyone had that, whether you felt like you needed someone to tell you you're allowed or you're good enough. And so I thought, oh, I guess I'm not allowed to be a writer because that didn't happen.
SARA CONNELL [00:10:29]:
I had no idea consciously that that's what was going on. So I went to university, I read other people's Books. I, you know, went and got a job in advertising, which is sort of like adjacent and, and unfortunately that job took place in the height of the MeToo era. It was a really like abusive environment and I spiraled. I was, you know, supporting myself. I didn't know. I felt trapped in that job. And one day I was in an airport and I saw a book and I didn't.
SARA CONNELL [00:10:59]:
It wasn't by a famous person. It was a woman named Margaret Bullet Jonas who wrote a book called Holy Hunger. And I read the book just on a whim. And by the time I finished read all in one night and by the time I finished reading, I said that's it, I'm leaving. I'm going to leave this job. And it, I credit that book is saving my life. To be honest. That happened.
SARA CONNELL [00:11:22]:
I said I'm going to pay this gift forward. Like no matter what. Like, I don't, I'm probably not good enough. It probably won't work. But I am going to do this thing, you know, this, this thing inside me Elizabeth Gilbert calls the big magic. You all know if you've, you felt it. And I just said, you know, like, this job is going to kill me. I just knew if I stayed on that path, I was, I was already having health crisis, physical health crisis.
SARA CONNELL [00:11:44]:
I was like, I'm. This is going nowher. And so I did. And that one book changed the trajectory of everything. And so when I was had the incredible fortune of not overnight but getting my first book on Oprah and in the New York Times and you know, these big, you know, things that as writers so great, I just said I am going to spend the rest of my life paying this gift forward through helping other people. Like I want everyone, I want, I want someone's TEDx talk on YouTube the day that someone's having that crisis. Right. Their book in the airport bookstore.
SARA CONNELL [00:12:17]:
And so that's how it happened. And I've done it ever since. And it has been the greatest gift of my lifetime to get to, to champion the missions and movements of incredible people that need to be known outside their little sphere.
Jessica Osborn [00:12:31]:
Yeah, I think so many people can relate to that feeling of, you know, just being in that job and being like it is just going nowhere. And I was, I was always on the in house side. So, you know, being in an agency and advertising, wow. They used to work those people to the absolute bone. And I would say in house was a little bit better. There was a little bit more care of employees that gosh, I used to see what would Go on. And I can absolutely relate to the terrible place that you must have been in. What was that first book about? I'm just curious, you know, because you're like, I read a book and it made you suddenly believe that hey, I can do this.
Jessica Osborn [00:13:09]:
I can actually write a book. I think where most people get stuck is like, what am I going to write it on? Like, what is the thing? You already know your expertise.
SARA CONNELL [00:13:17]:
Then of course, you know what? I didn't at all. But what happened is that. So I had no idea, right? Like that was the fun, that's the fun part of anyone listening. We don't have to really know the how if there's, if there's that desire. I'm a brain science person. So it's like desire is like a causative energy. It's like that's the sign there's no other position needed permission. Like if, you know, you have that desire for whatever it is, your starting your business, your book, whatever, like that is the, that's the thing.
SARA CONNELL [00:13:42]:
And so that says, you know, you've got it in you, right? You wouldn't have the desire if you didn't have the capability in my experience. So, so the book I read that inspired me was this, you know, this book I still called Holy Hunger. And really it was just this one woman describing how she had faced these traumas. Like I was sort of facing my own version. And then she also like I had done got into like a really serious eating disorder. That was kind of where that mental physical health crisis this happen. And she just shared how she got better. And I just realized like, I'm like I'm gonna, this is killing me.
SARA CONNELL [00:14:17]:
What am I doing here? But it gave me, but it also showed me that what she's not famous. It wasn't, you know, Brene Brown or you know, it was just a woman sharing her story. And that's what a talk, a great TED talk, a great book do. And I think for, for everyone watching this, those of you that have a business, right, it's, it's going one step further really doing a thought leader book, right, that's going to inspire someone to like want to work further with you and take action. So a little different than only our story. It's like our story plus our methodology, our way of doing something, our steps or whatever it is that we, that we're an expert in. So. Yeah.
SARA CONNELL [00:14:54]:
And then my first book that I wrote was ironically not on business or anything yet it was a memoir and the Seven Year Fertility Journey that, that My husband and I took to have our son, which is a whole other episode in and of itself because my mother at age 60, became our surrogate. So if anyone wants to wrap your mind around that.
Jessica Osborn [00:15:16]:
Oh my goodness.
SARA CONNELL [00:15:17]:
Incredible. And she's doing great. My son just turned 14, so I mean everyone's, everyone, it all worked out. But it was this sort of miracle that happened in our family. And that was the, that was sort of the initial, you know, book. And then since then I've written mostly nonfiction, more in the space of thought leadership and women's empowerment and you know, women's wealth building, you know, all that stuff. And so, but it was, that was the first book and it was just like really again, like this woman had, had done for me and shared her story. It was our story.
SARA CONNELL [00:15:48]:
And we've been so blessed to have, you know, families from around the world, thousands of families say, I didn't realize, you know, all the different. We've had people write to us that had cousin surrogates and friend surrogates and you know, aunt and mother in laws and I mean all these wonderful ways that a family can come together.
Jessica Osborn [00:16:06]:
Yeah, that's incredible. So tell me a little bit about when was your first TEDx speaking spot and how did you get it? Like what was the kind of shift that from writing your first book? Were there multiple books before you did the TEDx or how did that happen? Yeah, there were.
SARA CONNELL [00:16:26]:
And here's what I'm going to share my path to TEDx and then I'm also going to give for anyone listening. TedX has changed a lot in the last 18 months. And so I want to give people like just what you need to know if you want to do one now because it's a little bit different. There's, there's two things that I want everyone to have because it has changed a bit since I, you know, coach people. So what's funny is I coached probably 10 clients to get TEDx talks before I ever did mine because I was really clear that I didn't want to try it until I had something really, really specific that was really felt aligned with TEDx. Something to think about. It's very different than a keynote or than another type of talk that we might give TED if we, if you follow the brand ever is about ideas worth spreading. And they do not want someone to come in and say, in fact, they will not choose us if we come in and say, oh, I'm, you know, I give this talk all the time.
SARA CONNELL [00:17:20]:
I have a book on this. Like they Actually do not want you to do something that you've done anywhere else. That's something really important. And so the reason I share that about my journey is I had had a look as a coach helping people. Like, what did it take to get them a talk? Because they, some of my clients were very ready and they kept saying, what are you going to do yours? And I said, when I get really clear on what the talk is. And then one day it was like, I always get great ideas on walks. Like, I just, I'll go walking. I love to be in nature.
SARA CONNELL [00:17:50]:
And then suddenly I call it a download. Like, it just kind of comes in. And I said, oh, you know what? I really want to go back to my roots and do mine on how one book can save a life. That's what I really wanted to do the talk on, because that was at the core of why I do what I do. And that just felt like the talk I wanted to give. And Ted. So step one, if anyone wants to do a TedX talk, the first thing to know is that all the TED events are run by volunteers. So it's not the most organized.
SARA CONNELL [00:18:23]:
I mean, so grateful for these wonderful human beings that do this. But it's, it's not like you're going to a corporation where a very systematized. Every event has its own way of applying and they're not all centralized in one. Like people that coach with us. Like, we actually paid someone to create a database of every event, have all of it in like a spreadsheet. So it's easier to apply.
Jessica Osborn [00:18:44]:
Yeah.
SARA CONNELL [00:18:44]:
Takes an average of 80 applications to be selected for TEDx now. Wow. Some of our clients, some of our clients book it. We had someone, but she did hers last month and it took one application. Like she just, they were interested in her idea. It was done deal. Some have been 19, some have been 100. Okay.
SARA CONNELL [00:19:04]:
So we tell people if you're gonna apply and you don't have a connection already, you know, like, you know, someone organizing an event. It may be now, many of the applications are the same, so you don't have to write 80 different applications necessarily. But you, you do want to put your whole topic through the TEDx lens. And there's. We have a resource if anyone wants to DM me after, like, I analyzed the, the top 100 talks. Like, what were the titles? What were the, what were they looking for? So it's number one, don't pitch something and say you've done it a million times, because they, they won't like that number two, you want to put it through the TedX brand, your unique topic, but through their lens. So look at the titles of the top talks. It's a lot, you know, how schools kill creativity, you know, Simon Sinek or, you know, why it's not about how you look from a formal model or like, there's a.
SARA CONNELL [00:20:00]:
There's a very. There's a vibe. There's a TedX vibe. So when I work with people, I look at taking their expertise and then putting it through the TEDx vibe so that we can make an application that would be attractive, you know, to the, to the ted, you know, the TED community. So I had helped a lot of people do theirs, and I kind of knew what I needed to hit for my application. And so it was great fun and I'm glad I waited until I had a talk that was just exactly what felt like I could be a gift to the TED universe. So that was really fun. And then we kind of carried on, you know, helping our clients do that.
SARA CONNELL [00:20:37]:
Now why do one? It's like the credential of bestselling author. It's another like, check of. Yeah, it's value. People ascribe. It's like if you've written a bestselling book or you've done a TEDx talk, you're seen as an authority. You're seen as a. It goes on the main TED site. So people search your name and TED your talk comes up and it.
SARA CONNELL [00:20:57]:
And got the logo and all that, you know, it's. It's optics, kind of credibility booster. If someone's deciding between, like, you and another course creator, another coach, you know, sometimes that can tip someone in your direction, they feel. So it's a sales asset. Like, you can use it in your sales process. Someone's had a conversation, they're thinking about working with you. Oh, it was great to meet us. Here's my TEDx talk.
SARA CONNELL [00:21:22]:
A little bit more about what we do. Cool, right? So it's great.
Jessica Osborn [00:21:27]:
But I also understand that you've got something to, to, you know, a value. Because if you were chosen by TEDx, I mean, you're just saying to think about doing 80 applications, I would say most people would give up. Right? They're probably not even getting to 10. They're like, this is clearly not going to ever happen. Give up. Like, no. No person, unless they know to expect that they're not going through with it. They're definitely not getting to 40 or 50, of course.
SARA CONNELL [00:21:54]:
And that's why I love to tell people up front, if you want to take this on and cold pitch, just go. Because then our site, so we, we have people do a power 100. So we just say assume you're doing 100. And then the people, when you get a yes earlier that you're, you're ecstatic instead of thinking, oh, I've slogged. So we just want to set expectations. Right. Again, if you know someone who's an organizer, it's a very different experience because you message, you drop the relationship and you can get selected. Now again, normally the process was put your Expertise through the TEDx lens, get that really good title.
SARA CONNELL [00:22:28]:
That's very TEDxy. You know, the audience takeaway is really important to, you know, communicate. What is that audience gonna learn in 8 to 12 minutes? They're really short now. Right. And, and then the cool part is they care more about the idea than your platform. So don't be intimidated. Anybody. If you feel I don't have a big following.
SARA CONNELL [00:22:49]:
That's not what TED is not. They have a huge following. They don't need your.
Jessica Osborn [00:22:52]:
Yeah, that's their own one. Right.
SARA CONNELL [00:22:55]:
They want a really cool twist on your topic that people haven't thought of. That the audience is going to think differently. Right. At the end of.
Jessica Osborn [00:23:05]:
Exactly. I always think about TEDx as being a perspective shift. Like, yes, you've got eight minutes to change the way someone thinks about something and that is the, the key to it.
SARA CONNELL [00:23:16]:
Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:23:16]:
So if your topic is just sharing something that people probably already get or understand, I don't think that's going to fly with them. I think they really want to be breaking, like you said, new ideas, but not just new. You know, it doesn't have to be about something new is what I'm kind of gathering from you. I think it's like, I've got a new slant on this or I'm going to get you to see this in a totally different way. And that's what they want to put on their stage.
SARA CONNELL [00:23:39]:
They do. And coming up with being provocative a little bit in your title and your topic. So, for example, I was working with a client who's a minister and he wanted to do a talk on forgiveness. That's his real passion. Just like that's a really important piece. And so he can't pitch like, you know, why forgiveness is good and you know, so we. Why forgiveness doesn't work. And so that's like, wait, what? From a minister?
Jessica Osborn [00:24:04]:
Yeah.
SARA CONNELL [00:24:05]:
Now of course, his whole talk is of course that it does, but it's the way most people are taught. He's Saying the way most of us are taught about forgiveness is is, is is it creates so much resistance because people think it's letting the other person. So he was basically getting at the way we're taught to do. Forgiveness doesn't work, but here's how it does right? So but being a little bit edgy in there, a little bit like wait, what are you right? And you want to be that right now. The new things I promised I would share like what's the late breaking just now off the presses. The main thing to keep in mind is that TED is now requiring in any application for you to cite a peer reviewed piece of research and that didn't used to be an absolute deal breaker. I think something happened where they maybe got critiqued or criticized. I don't know about not having enough like evidence based or the talks being not scientific or whatever it is.
SARA CONNELL [00:25:08]:
So all you need to do now in this day and is just go on chat GBT or you know, go on AI and say what are the top peer reviewed studies? And put in your topic and look for something that really backs up. But you want something really, really established. You know, Harvard Business School, you know, Cambridge and and I think that's good actually to be honest because that is part of their brand. But it didn't used to be a like a deal breaker. They might say you know, pull it into the top and now it needs to be front and center in your application. Hugely important because they want their, their to know they're going to put someone on the stage who will have substantiated whatever your twist is your thesis for your talk. You want to have something that's, that's really like a powerful statistic or a study that backs it up. So that's just an interesting.
SARA CONNELL [00:25:54]:
We we started seeing some people get no's that I usually have a good sense at this point. Same with book deals. I'm like I kind of know who's going to get it fast. I and one of our clients, it should have been a slam dunk. She has a really cool methodology psychiatrist really cool methodology, really interesting. And she was, she wasn't getting and so finally one of usually they don't give you feedback and luckily one of the organizers just said hey I actually really like this but I need a peer reviewed stat up front. And it was like oh. So we just started having everyone do them now.
SARA CONNELL [00:26:28]:
You know, just pick it out ahead of time, cut it off at the pass and then it is also just, it's not really a New thing, but just being highly attuned to putting out front and center. This would be a customized talk that's never been done before. Like, they just want to be reassured even more that you're not rolling out your dog and pony show, your keynote that you give a million times. They just really want to see that used to be, again, more of a talk point versus needing to make that very clear up front. Like, I would create a customized, you know, Talk just for TEDx, where the audience will learn that.
Jessica Osborn [00:27:07]:
What would you say? Like, I mean, obviously there'd be quite a few differences here, but what's the primary difference between what you might have talked on before? Say, I mean, I'm sure that you have a topic so that you know your priest who's talking about forgiveness. I'm sure he talks about forgiveness a lot. And he may even have a keynote presentation. What's the difference in a TEDx kind of presentation in terms of the content? Because I know that there's going to be some key differences, right?
SARA CONNELL [00:27:33]:
Because you guys all know, right? You sort of get the vibe, right? It's almost like, okay, so here's one. You're going to open with either a question that draws the audience in. And this is actually good for other keynotes, too. This is a good technique anyway, because you want to make your audience part of the talk, but especially intense. You'll see the top talks often start with, you know, did you ever feel lonely, even in a crowd? Crowd, you know, did you ever wonder like, there's there. Have you ever, you know, felt like you put your foot in your mouth or, you know, I mean, they'll draw. So there's a question to bring the audience in. And then what you're doing is sort of this beautiful dance between storytelling and the, Aha, new idea, right? So.
SARA CONNELL [00:28:19]:
So you're drawing the audience in. If anyone wants to watch one that I think is just mesmerizing. And this is a longer one because they used to be 18 minutes and now they're 8:12. But Rory Vaden, R O R Y and his last name is V, as in Victor. A D E, N. His is a great example of sort of the classic TED vibe where he. He's very charismatic, he's a beautiful job. But he.
SARA CONNELL [00:28:47]:
What he's really talking about is like as a consultant, a sort of focus funnel that's really. If you say, what's his talk about, he sort of teaches you this focus funnel of how to get out of all the stupid stuff that's not important. And Focus on what's actually important. That's really like his take on his. His funnel that he teaches, you know, his people and his consultancy on how to only focus on your priorities and get rid of the other stuff. And it's a cool funnel, right?
Jessica Osborn [00:29:12]:
Yeah.
SARA CONNELL [00:29:12]:
But if you watch the story that he uses in his main story in the. Again, it's a longer talk than most of us get now, so we got to make our story shorter. But it's so clever because it's funny. Okay, so you want to think in Ted, can you inject a little humor? Right. You want to get people laughing. You want to engage them in the talk. And then it also creates sort of a punchline. It makes.
SARA CONNELL [00:29:39]:
It makes his. He's not telling a story just about someone using his framework. That would be the kind of testimonial style. Like, I teach this framework, and then this person used it and got this result. That would be like a classic way that you could do a talk. But so for Ted, you want to be a little bit more craft oriented. He tells an adorable, endearing story of himself as a younger man, and then kind of ties it to his framework and almost like a punchline. And so it really is like there's a craft to it.
SARA CONNELL [00:30:10]:
And so is to keep it simple for everybody. Open with a question that draws your audience into the talk with you, set up the need for what you're gonna teach. So his might have been. I don't remember actually this part, but it might have been like, you know, do you feel like you get to the end of the day and didn't do the most important thing? Well, it happens to lots of us. And then there would be your study. In fact, according to Harvard Business Review, 90% of people spend four hours a day procrastinating or on an important TAS. And he would have his research there, right?
Jessica Osborn [00:30:42]:
Yeah.
SARA CONNELL [00:30:43]:
And then he kind of sets up that he's going to teach you this focus funnel, and he gives you a little bit of it. And suddenly it's what great standup comics do. Suddenly they cut away. And books, good books, do this, too. And he's telling you the story, and you don't know how it relates, but he's. It's so endearing and so charming and cute that you're like, I'm taking the ride, I'm sure to connect somehow. And then, pow. So I think with Ted, you want to.
SARA CONNELL [00:31:07]:
You want to play with the element of surprising connections instead of really obvious. I'm going to teach you this. I teach you this, you'll see some TEDx talks like that and they're not the ones that are going viral.
Jessica Osborn [00:31:20]:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Now my next question is it's a big stage to be on TEDx and in terms of a person and being able to command the stage and really, I guess, you know, you have that vision in mind, like I want to have a TEDx talk, maybe that goes viral but like, gosh, can I even do that? Am I the person who can stand on the stage and do I have that presence? Do I have that ability to hold the room, hold the audience and bring them on the journey with me? Is there types of people, you know, you're working with, who you're like, wow, you've got a really great story, you've got a great message, but you know, maybe not Quite ready for TedX or maybe there's another platform that's better suited. I'm just curious because I'm sure there's a lot of people out there with lots of valuable stuff to share, but TEDx probably isn't a fit for everybody just because of that.
SARA CONNELL [00:32:16]:
Yeah, I think it's such an important question. So first of all it's like how much do we want it? Because as we talked about, if you are going to do the applications and really like craft a talk at this level, right. Because it's a calling card. Right. It's going to be seen on the TED forever. Now here's what I would say. I believe that any skill, writing, speaking, anything can be learned. I'm a growth mindset person for sure.
SARA CONNELL [00:32:39]:
So I think more about desire and desired outcomes are the decision maker versus is someone good enough. Right. I think this is a skill. I would say you must work with a coach of some kind if you aren't already like a really top speed. Because I mean, who doesn't? It's like having a book editor. It's like even the best writers in the world have an editor. Right. So I do think having some really coach on both the presentation itself, the talk content is well worth it.
SARA CONNELL [00:33:07]:
But if you desire it, right. That's usually a sign you've got it in you because there are a lot of people who you couldn't pay the money. That sounds like absolute nightmare to have to get up in front of all those people with that brand. They would.
Jessica Osborn [00:33:20]:
Yeah, uncomfortable.
SARA CONNELL [00:33:22]:
I also think it's like what, what does someone really want? Right. I think if you love the ted, I, I wouldn't recommend doing it. If you don't love the TedX brand like I'd been a fan for a long time. I loved watching them. I really felt grateful. I wanted to almost like contribute to, to that canon. So I think if you're doing it just because it's a cool logo that you want to say you've done a TedX talk, I don't think it's probably worth what you need to put in to it because you can also, like, do PR and get some other cool logos. You know what I mean? You could use things.
SARA CONNELL [00:33:53]:
I think, though, if you love what TED is about, which. Which a lot of our clients do and I do, and you feel inspired by their mission, then I think you absolutely, with the right coaching can. Can rock your talk because it doesn't. You don't have to be funny, you don't have to be extroverted. You don't have to be. There are people given very powerful talks that are researchers and are awkward. TED is more about authenticity versus, you know, if you're going to do a keynote, someone's paying you $20,000, they expect you to come in and blow the roof off of that place. They're like streaking and screaming and ready to go make sales or whatever it is that you're coming to talk about.
SARA CONNELL [00:34:33]:
So that's very different. TED is, is a place they want real people. They actually. That's what I mean. They don't just want polished speaker expert. They want real interesting humans that have something to share. So I. Much less.
SARA CONNELL [00:34:48]:
I would factor in much less if you feel like you're a good speaker or confident in that. More, do you love what it's about? And like me, I waited years before pitching one because I really didn't feel like I had one that aligned with their brand. So I think really, really like, whether you work with a coach or you just research on your own, like, what are those talks? And do you see yourself? And is there something Venn diagrammed with what you do and what they're about, you know, that really matches in the middle, then if so, absolutely you can learn. Look, so much of speaking is a craft.
Jessica Osborn [00:35:24]:
Yeah.
SARA CONNELL [00:35:25]:
Both in the presentation and the content. And any of that can be learned and helped if you've got an important message that's aligned. So that's the only thing I would care is, is the message aligned? And do you love ted? Otherwise, yes. Go do podcasts, go do keynotes, go. You could, you could speak at universities. There's so many cool places to speak. And I would only do it if you. There's a real, like, love there in the heart versus just.
SARA CONNELL [00:35:52]:
It'd be cool to say, like, I'd love to have a PhD. I would love to have a PhD. I have a master's. I have all that. And I was like, God, I'd love a PhD. But that desire is not coming from my soul. It is not coming to go spend seven more years in academia. And that's coming from my ego just thinking it would be fun to be doctor.
Jessica Osborn [00:36:10]:
Whatever.
SARA CONNELL [00:36:11]:
That's not an authentic soul thing. If I have a Soul calling for Ted, then this 80 applications are well worth it.
Jessica Osborn [00:36:19]:
Yeah, I think that's so important, actually, just to reiterate what you said, to have that alignment energetically, that TED is something that you really love, what it's all about, and that you want to contribute to it, you know, and it kind of helps you take. It's not about you. And all of the fear that we often have around speaking.
SARA CONNELL [00:36:41]:
Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:36:41]:
Is all because we're looking at ourselves. We're thinking about us and what do we look like. And all of the, you know, the inner critic comes through and taking that away to think, no, I'm actually here to contribute to something far bigger, that this is a movement. This is about, you know, I'm making a really small contribution. I'm. But. And it can. I think it can help take away a lot of that fear and give you that ability to stand up and.
Jessica Osborn [00:37:05]:
And do your piece, which is all about, like you said, just having that alignment with the platform. Like, is this actually a logo that you want or is it something that you want to contribute to, that you feel really part of? Because. Yeah, I thought it was so powerful what you said. So I just wanted to reiterate that in there.
SARA CONNELL [00:37:24]:
What.
Jessica Osborn [00:37:25]:
What do you think? You know, because I was thinking about it before and the reason why I asked that question, I was like, authors tend to be, you know, much more, you know, typically, I'm going to broad generalization here, but people who love to write often are more introverted, quieter. You know, that's why they prefer writing as opposed to speaking. And then you've got the. So it's like we've got the polar opposites here. Yeah. So I was interested for you to talk a little bit about that. You know, you get somebody in book material, speaking material. How do you help them to combine this together and.
Jessica Osborn [00:38:02]:
And succeed at both?
SARA CONNELL [00:38:04]:
So I do. Again, it goes back to that authenticity. That's why, again, we wouldn't recommend everyone, you know, just everyone should do this. This is so. I mean, most of us who are writers were excited to not be in front of the camera. Then social media came along, and we were all supposed to have content channels and video. But remember, podcast used to just be audio, and now we're on video for the. You know, so it's so funny how, how that.
SARA CONNELL [00:38:27]:
How that has evolved. Right. You're suddenly like, I thought I was behind the camera and maybe once in a while come out for, like a book signing, and I'm good. So I think this is the thing. So I look at you, the book outcomes and authenticity of the person. So what are the outcomes someone wants? If someone comes in and says, I want a book and I want to go speak and I want to contribute to change lives in this way, then, you know, let's build in like a pro, you know, a real speaking platform into the plan. But we have people who are. We have an amazing client, Tamara Adams, whose book comes out soon, Last Shift to Freedom.
SARA CONNELL [00:38:59]:
She's. She's incredible. And her book is about family ancestry and, you know, genealogy. And she loves, you know, like, research. And, you know, she's like. I mean, she actually is, you know, amazing at. As a communicator. But, like, you know, it's like, if you're shy or more introverted, I'm an ambivert.
SARA CONNELL [00:39:19]:
So I can kind of, you know, go both ways depending on the situation. It's. It's. I don't. I don't love the idea of someone saying, you know, like, they're. They don't have to go speak is what. I guess I get it now. A lot of people like to do podcast interviews because it feels they're just talking about their book and being interviewed versus I'm on a stage in front of a thousand people.
SARA CONNELL [00:39:37]:
Supposed to. I don't perform. Right. Which is different. Like, being is different than a. And then a performance in TEDx. And keynotes are a version of a performance. It's a.
SARA CONNELL [00:39:46]:
It's a. As yourself, but it is a performance. Right. And so I really listen for people and look at the body language, like, what lights someone up and watching shoulds, you know, oh, I should go out and speak. Because that's what writers are supposed to. Not necessarily. Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:40:02]:
Yeah.
SARA CONNELL [00:40:02]:
And doing social media posts or doing newsletters or doing blogs along with their books. So it's. What are the outcomes? Now if someone's outcome is, I want to be a paid speaker, then, you know, let's use the book to help you do that. Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:40:14]:
So it's.
SARA CONNELL [00:40:16]:
It's marrying. There's so many Ways we can be visible. Right. We talked about, you know, visibility being important. There's so many ways and so it's not doing one set formula. That's why we don't do that in our coaching. We don't, oh, you're coming in, Jessica. And here's what we're doing.
SARA CONNELL [00:40:32]:
You know, it's, who are you? Where do you want your thought leadership to go? And then what are the right mediums and channels to have that happen that light you up? Because like I said, you know, there are people who go on substack and develop a huge following and they, they get a big following for their book and they don't have to do anything but write the book and write articles. Right, that's. And posts, that's. And be on social media and they can be on X and just writing, they don't have to do videos. Then people who love both can absolutely be in front of the camera and go and get on the stage. So I think it's just making sure someone's should energy and, and that they have permission to not do the things that like we can get to visibility, audience building, monetization and book sales in many ways. So I like, I like discovering like who someone is and then what are, what are the ways that those channels will serve the person? Right. You can't anything.
SARA CONNELL [00:41:29]:
I mean our dream, a lot of people is like let me just write the book and then someone else markets it and people buy a million. That one isn't so much of our time. But you don't have to be on a stage, you don't have to be in front of the camera if that's not authentic to your personality.
Jessica Osborn [00:41:44]:
Yeah. So I think we're so aligned with that. You know, when I think about even, you know, how you build a business, the service offerings, like there is no one way, there is no must do, there is no one way to market your business. It is so much about choosing the ones that are best suited to you most well aligned and aligned with your market as well. And like you say there are no shoulds. Like let's not tell ourselves all the shoulds. And I think you can easily get stuck in that when you're scrolling social media. You know, you're reading posts and people will, you know, have their little opinions here and there and, and they've got a purpose for why they're saying it.
Jessica Osborn [00:42:19]:
But I think you so many people take all that on and, and then they almost get stuck thinking, but I, if I do this then I have to do that. And that means I've got to be this kind of person. And it's like, no, that's just someone else's opinion. And you can go and do it your way. Right. So I've got one last question to ask because we haven't touched on this at all. And I'm always curious, what would you say are the biggest maybe mistake or if there's more than one mistake that people make to try to, you know, become a thought leader? What you see them doing that you'd say, that's really not helping. You know, is there something that sticks out to you? I'm sure that.
SARA CONNELL [00:43:01]:
And it's hard because it was the hardest one for me in the sense that making your brand and visibility a huge priority as much as creating the asset, whether it's the book or the talk or the business, I think that I'm going to give two. I'd say that's one of them because, you know, I think we just sometimes, you know, we don't think of ourselves as marketers. It's like, it's like when people want to start a business, well, they realize they're going to be now in sales, they're in marketing, like, whether they, they're like, do their business, like, do the thing that's in their business. And then suddenly, oh, God, I've got to be a cmo and, you know, I've got to do all these things. So I think one is, is underestimating the importance of visibility. Again, you can find your authentic way of doing it, but the truth that we. The fastest way to be a known thought leader is to get in front of other people's audiences as much as possible. That's again, like, you know, doing people's podcasts, get on their social media with them, creating collaborations, being the newsletter, you know, and it's reciprocal.
SARA CONNELL [00:44:03]:
Right? We're, we're, we're, we're. I, I always start with generosity, like, how can I give? And then, you know, develop a relationship. And if it's in a fit, you know, I think one is, is people don't build that in to the vision. So they think, I'm just gonna write the book and everyone will read it or I'm gonna, you know, whatever. And yeah, it really is at this moment in time, absolutely crucial to have that, that visibility around, you know, large groups of the people you ideally want to serve. Like, that's, that's true. To launch a business too. It doesn't have to be about just books.
SARA CONNELL [00:44:34]:
It's like about what we do at a, at a pre. High, high volume in order to make.
Jessica Osborn [00:44:42]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. And I think People think, well, I write a book, I put it on Amazon or, or wherever. And Amazon is a platform that then has all the people. So you can kind of understand the thinking, the logic behind that. But you know, what you're saying is that's one of the biggest mistakes because you're literally what one tiny little book in a sea of millions of books.
SARA CONNELL [00:45:12]:
And then I think the other thing in terms of thought leadership is some people want to do the book and then have that like, you know, make millions of dollars right out of the gate. Like with. There's the visibility part. But I really, that's why we are so adamant in our work with people of figuring out what the business is behind the book. Whether that's a business people have like in your audience, then it's about using the book and speaking to someone scale it. And then if you don't something, it's making sure we have something because so, so having that sort of funnel of like how people find you in the visibility and then how they consume right now because we're in a trust recession, books are so powerful and TEDx talks are so powerful because people can see the who behind the business. And there's a new piece of research that you might have seen came out that says, you know, people now like it was something like 94% of people making a buying decision won't make the decision until they have a good sense of the person that they're going. So before it was like, what's the result? This course gives me or this coaching gives me or it was very much about like what's the transformation I want makes total sense.
SARA CONNELL [00:46:18]:
And of course that's still important. But people now want to know who am I in relationship because they've been burned by either, you know, someone that talked a good game and that wasn't the real deal or someone out facing look like this, but was different. So that's become crucially important. And so I think back to like having a way for people to really get to know the who and versus just the what of what. And I think that that's important for business. It's certainly important in thought leadership. That visibility piece, man. It is.
SARA CONNELL [00:46:52]:
No. And it's that way for business. Right. If not enough people know about, you have no pipeline, no leads.
Jessica Osborn [00:46:58]:
Yeah, yeah, that's so true. I, I have One other question now because it sparked especially about the whole trust thing. And so AI Chat GPT I'm sure that you could put a prompt in and it could spit out a book for you. Yeah. So how do you think that the fact that we kind of know that that could be happening? How is that impacting the trust, trust factor with people writing a book? And I just wanted to share one other piece because I was horrified when somebody told me this once a few years back now. But they were like, yeah, I think they were on the phone trying to sell something to me. They had booked a discovery call with me but it turned into they actually wanted to sell something to me. That was like red flag to begin with.
Jessica Osborn [00:47:46]:
I was almost called trying to get up.
SARA CONNELL [00:47:48]:
That happens.
Jessica Osborn [00:47:50]:
Oh, we'll write you, we'll write a book with you. And the best thing is you don't actually have to do any writing. You just pick the chapters that you want and we just go bing, bing, bing, bing. Put them in a book, put your name on it. And I was like, I was horror. I was sitting there with my mouth open thinking I could not think of anything more damaging or more ridiculous to do to your brand than have somebody put pre written chapters in and put your name on it. And they're like oh, you just stand up and show that you have a book. And I was like this person does not understand at all.
Jessica Osborn [00:48:20]:
So I just wanted to, yeah, please tell me.
SARA CONNELL [00:48:25]:
I'm like let's roll. I'm like ready to go. Yeah. Here's my take on. So I think there's many good ways to use AI. I think automations research having, you know, rapid response customer service, there's all kinds of great ways we can use it, even some email copy, you know, in terms of just coming up with email campaigns and I think that can be an okay. I do not let, I do not let the air write any of my content, not a single word. Now will I ask AI for studies, cultural stories, what's going on in the world like hooks and trends that I can write things around? Absolutely right.
SARA CONNELL [00:49:03]:
Love that. But first of all, all books are screened through publishers and if they've been AI written they are not there. You are not contender for any bestseller lists, any awards, they are immediately flagged and I am so glad that that's, that's the case because that's not a book anyone human should get any credit for. You didn't write it, right. So yeah, another real danger is that AI can only draw from what's already been Done.
Jessica Osborn [00:49:29]:
Yes.
SARA CONNELL [00:49:30]:
So your book is inherently would be derivative and unoriginal because it can only pull from what's already been done. And so that to me is the actual opposite of being a thought leader. Like you're. That is. That is not leading anything thoughts that's just like that's in the rearview mirror already. Whatever.
Jessica Osborn [00:49:47]:
Yeah.
SARA CONNELL [00:49:48]:
Again I love it for research, I love it for automations, I love it for system building. I. There's so many great things that can help economize like what we do. I think it's brilliant. I just. I would not recommend any. First of all if you, if you want a reputable book it will be flagged immediately and it will. It was written by robot, written by chat GPT in the bookstore and who wants to read that that book like no.
SARA CONNELL [00:50:12]:
So. So I think that that's. I, I dissuade vehemently all our authors from even. I mean our authors want to like oh well I kind of want to like have it just sort of generating then all and I was like I wouldn't now how we can tell if something's AI or not. The good news is anything that gets again published properly meaning like through a publisher and is on any kind of list got flagged for it if it was so, so that's like a way that the, that the industry is differentiating what now look, if someone is listening and you want to have a lead generation book for your clients and you want to put in your course and say write an ebook based on my content and put it great. That's your still your thought leadership. It's your. You know you can make a.
SARA CONNELL [00:50:56]:
A chat bot and have it generate something like you find but if you want to do a. That's a flag in the ground that's going to change the way people think like that needs to be your. Your unique thinking, your stories and believe me the other way I use the AI to help writing is I'll be on the treadmill or in the car and I'll. I'll hit record and have it transcribe as I'm dictating a chapter. Absolutely happy. And then it prints me out like a draft and then I'm just polishing. But that's my content. Right.
SARA CONNELL [00:51:29]:
I would never let it write any of our stuff for us. And I think it's that that's being like. That's so horrifying to me that you heard that you know that, that, that recommendation it sounds. You will never be proud of that kind of a book. No One would. And no, it's not going to attract any clients because people feel energy.
Jessica Osborn [00:51:48]:
Yes. Yeah. So glad that you said that. And I'm really glad that there is that ability to check that something has been AI Generated. Generated, because that was really my concern. I thought, you know, it's just like this easy way that people are creating things. And I've always said, but it's only create. Like you, you said the, you know, it's what's already out there.
Jessica Osborn [00:52:11]:
So it's only pulling from something that already exists and not anything that's unique or you. And maybe you could get it to, you know, help you draft your own content. But I, I actually did a trial on that one, so I was like, maybe it could write. I'll put this in and see if it can write an article for me. And then it was adding in some weird things. It wasn't my work. And so I went, no, that's, you know, I want you to just take this and polish it. And it was not doing that really well at all.
Jessica Osborn [00:52:40]:
And so I thought actually it's probably good to, you know, like you said, do a bit of research, get a few ideas, maybe even just help get your thoughts in order, that type of thing. But, you know, it's like that is your very basic draft. Like nothing that it comes out of it should ever be published.
SARA CONNELL [00:52:57]:
Best things to be published. And even having it make you. Sometimes our clients like it to make an outline for an article. Like if they're invited to do something for just say, hey, chat, you know, pull the. The best Forbes articles on my topic and analyze. This is where I would use it and say, analyze the best article. Like if you're going to be published in Forbes and you say, pull the top Forbes articles around my topic and analyze the structure. What did they do for the opening? What made it good? Like that, I think is a great way to use AI because then it's going to give you a sort of a template.
SARA CONNELL [00:53:31]:
Then you go write the article based on that outline. That is a wonderful, wonderful way to have a research assistant that's in your phone and you don't have to pay. Right? I mean, that is.
Jessica Osborn [00:53:42]:
Yeah, exactly.
SARA CONNELL [00:53:44]:
And I like it for that stuff like analyze. Look, I researched 100 New York Times bestsellers to come up with our book framework. Well, we didn't have AI because I did that a bunch of years ago. But you also don't want to deprive. I think people also are losing the ability to think if we rely too heavily. I know People now that are like it atrophies our brain and our creative, you know, genius. I'm. I'm very wary of unless again it's research or helping me coagulate.
SARA CONNELL [00:54:11]:
Like pull the top studies on this. That's so helpful.
Jessica Osborn [00:54:14]:
Yeah.
SARA CONNELL [00:54:15]:
If you pitch speaking. Hey chat. Make me a list of 100 Great Events where they book outside speakers on my kind of a topic. Pull the program, name the date of the event, the submission guidelines. Wonderful. That will save you hours and hours and. But I still would write the pitch. I wouldn't have the.
Jessica Osborn [00:54:35]:
Yes. And you've still done the thinking of what it is that you want. Right. You're not just asking it to make the strategy for you run your life because you know, it horrifies me and I think this is a whole podcast conversation on its own.
SARA CONNELL [00:54:51]:
Conversation. Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:54:52]:
Yeah.
SARA CONNELL [00:54:52]:
But people, people are even like my son's age. It's terrifying. And you know teenagers because they just see people like. And again schools are doing the same. It's. It counts as plagiarism. Right. So you.
SARA CONNELL [00:55:03]:
Or in meaning it's screened for in that same way. And so you know, if you, if they're using it to write a paper, it's like you never learn it though. The paper isn't about the paper. Paper is the students ability to have to think and become a critical thinker. And so I just, I'm really cautious about what we want to delegate. If it's not a skill I want to develop in myself, like I don't want to learn coding and automations and that's just not where I'm called to serve, then beautiful. If the AI can help do that quickly, absolutely grateful. But I don't to want away the sharpness of my mind and my deep thought because that's the only thing I am here to contribute uniquely and that's.
Jessica Osborn [00:55:46]:
The only thing that we actually. When you think about what can AI take over, it can't take over our brains and you know it's doing all of this thinking. But if you literally stop thinking and ask it to do all of that thinking for you, then your value, your own learning, your own knowledge and ability to do unique thinking is diminishing because suddenly you're just putting everything into chat DPT and not relying on yourself or developing your own skills. I think it's horrifying. Side note, I had it. I didn't even realize it could do this, but I asked it to create a calculator for me and it coded a calculator and I was like, amazing. So I obviously told it what I wanted it to do in the outputs and input and it just gave me the HTML code that I can then go and put in a web website. So I went, that is really cool.
SARA CONNELL [00:56:36]:
Love it. That's a brilliant way to do that because you're not abdicating leadership to it. But it. The. The AI can't have our brains and it can't have our souls. It doesn't know our heart, our story in that way. And again, I'm very friendly with my. Hi child.
SARA CONNELL [00:56:50]:
Thank you. You're such. Because they're so nice that it's really gotten like a lot better of like, it cheers you on and it gives you. Gives you great. I love it. I love the vibe. But like, that was. That's such a perfect way, right? Or it's like, like I'm going to have an app for us, for our clients that I've always wanted to make and just like.
SARA CONNELL [00:57:06]:
Because I don't know how to build them and now like, yes, great. I don't know. And I'm not going to learn that because I've created what's going to go in the app that's going to help our people methodology that it can put in there. Okay, great. That's a good way to partner with the AI. Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:57:19]:
Yeah. So true. Love this, Sarah. This has been such a great conversation. Where can people find you and connect with you, learn more? Where's the best place for them to.
SARA CONNELL [00:57:32]:
Absolutely. You know, we have a lot of great trainings. They're all free over on YouTube where people. If you want to read, you know, I did. I've done ones on TedX. I've done ones on book writing. You know, so if you just want to kind of get if this, if this was fun today and want to play around with what could this look like? We're at Thought Leader Media. Thought Leader Media is our YouTube channel.
SARA CONNELL [00:57:51]:
So please join us over there because there's so much fun stuff and we have neat, like, resources and cool master classes and everything. Just all available for everyone. And Instagram, if You aren't on YouTubeArra Cannell.
Jessica Osborn [00:58:04]:
Amazing. We'll make sure those are linked up in the show notes, so head over. Sounds like a great resource to get your teeth into your YouTube channel. Thank you so much for sharing that. And it just sounds like you've got such a generous nature and sharing your expertise. So that's amazing. Thank you, Sarah. This has been fantastic.
Jessica Osborn [00:58:23]:
And if anyone's been listening, you're still here with us. Thank you. I know the conversation has been a while, but Sarah has so much to share and I think we just definitely needed to tap into her knowledge. If there's been something that stood out to you today, we would love it. If you, you know, if you are on Instagram, then share it in your stories. Tag, Sarah, tag me. Let us know what you enjoyed about it. You know, give the episode a rating or a review, which would also help others find it too.
Jessica Osborn [00:58:52]:
So thank you very much, much. And thank you, Sarah.
SARA CONNELL [00:58:56]:
Such a pleasure.
