Jessica Osborn [00:00:03]:
Have you ever thought that you should start a business with one of your friends because you've got this great idea and the two of you are so connected and aligned on the vision, but then it just kind of never really happened. Well, today I'm bringing onto the podcast two incredible women who have come together to co found and build a large business event. And they're doing it all kind of in public, as in sharing the behind the scenes as they go. And they're here to share their story, the wins, the lessons and what it is that they are creating. So stay tuned, it's coming right up. So my special guests today are the co founders of the Ripple Family Festival, which is a non conferency business festival that these two ladies are creating here in Australia. Fee Johnston is a small business expert with 24 years of experience advising, coaching and consulting small brands on money and business strategies. She's the founder of Peach Business which helps small businesses run those profitable and sustainable brands.
Jessica Osborn [00:01:51]:
A chartered accountant by trade, you know, she is the, the person who's bringing that financial acumen to the business partnership. Mia Fieldman is a. Actually say that again. And the other half of the partnership is Mia Feilman. She's a global marketing and campaign strategist and the founder of Campaign Del Mar. Mia has spent the last 13 years mentoring and training smaller brands to create successful marketing brands and she's widely published as a small business marketing expert and she also hosts a podcast called Got Marketing. Now when these two ladies got the vision for a business event that was something completely different to the, the traditional boring conference, they put their heads together and came up with this vision and they have been very busy creating it while they're still running their own two businesses. So how do they do that? How are they still managing to be friends as well as co founders and and basically put on an event from scratch with no real funding apart from their own.
Jessica Osborn [00:03:19]:
You can hear all of that in today's episode. So without further ado, let me this episode for you. So without further ado, let me play this interview for you. Hello. So I'm here in the studio and we have a very special episode today because I actually have two amazing guests with me. So welcome to Mia Feilman and Fi Johnston. Thank you for joining us on She's a Business Podcast.
Mia Feilman [00:04:28]:
Thank you so much for having us. It's such a treat to talk to you today about what me and my best business friend have been cooking up.
Jessica Osborn [00:04:37]:
Yeah, that's amazing. So can you tell us maybe you go first, Mia, A bit about what it is that you do in your business. You know, a little bit of background and then Fee, and then we can kind of talk about this new co founding adventure that you guys have embarked on together. Yeah.
Mia Fileman [00:04:56]:
So I'm a marketing and campaign strategist with two decades of experience and now I'm a full time mentor and trainer to female entrepreneurs. So I work with them on their marketing and their campaigns. And in my capacity as the founder of Campaign Del Mar, I started collaborating a lot with Fee, who does money stuff that she's going to talk about.
Jessica Osborn [00:05:24]:
Love how you say money stuff. That's a nice segue.
Fi Johnston [00:05:28]:
Well, Jess, thank you for having us. And hey, Mia, my name is Fi Johnston. I'm a chartered accountant, I'm a business strategist and a money coach. I've been specializing in small business for 25 years. I love it with every fiber of my being. And yeah, just like Mia, I am now somebody who coaches and mentors other small business owners, predominantly females, to make more money and impact through their small businesses.
Fi Johnston [00:06:17]:
Amazing.
Jessica Osborn [00:06:18]:
And so tell us a bit about what it is that you guys have decided to do together. Obviously, having been friends for a while in your business, in separate businesses, you've embarked on an adventure as something together. So tell us a little bit about it. Philippines.
Fi Johnston [00:06:37]:
Should I take this on, Mia? Great. Okay, so let's call it almost a year ago now, I had a conversation with Mia where I said, small business conferences are boring, music festivals are awesome. Why can't we bring the two together? And the concept is that both Mia and I are so passionate about small business and about small business owners succeeding both mentally, physically and financially. And we have this really rich, diverse skill set between the two of us. We're also at that stage in our career where we're ready to do something that has a bit more legacy and something to really be not just remembered by, but actually be able to remember for ourselves that we created this event where we're bringing together small businesses from all walks of life with comedians, live music, food, art, dance and entertainment all in the one space. Take it from here, Mia. Yeah. Yeah.
Mia Feilman [00:07:41]:
So it was an absolute emphatic yes for me because exactly like Fi said, you know, we both run quite sustainable small businesses now. And so we're thinking about what the impact is that we want to create as business owners and find that there is a lot of kind of Debbie Downer around small business. You know, like it's so hard and all of that. And yes, of course it is, but actually when you do it with other people who are like minded, it gets easier, it gets more fun. And so that's really the vibe that we want to bring to Ripple Festival which is happening over two days in Melbourne in November. So it's 12th and the 13th. And it is for creative business owners, it is for purpose driven business owners, for service providers. It's also for tradies, which we can talk about in a minute because that seems like a bit of a left of center addition to our lineup.
Mia Feilman [00:08:42]:
I'm in a world of like AI slop and bots talking to bots and you know, exaggeration and hyperbole and outright lying. This idea of coming together in person to celebrate small business owners who by the way, represent 97 of the business community in Australia, I sorely need it. Like, there are so many conferences and events for the tech bros or for retailers or for E commerce, but the rest of us, which are the overwhelming majority, we are kind of passed over.
Jessica Osborn [00:09:21]:
Yeah, that is so funny because I posted this morning, you know, just like there are bots sending you DMs about a bot created service. Like they're in the DMs trying to sell to you. There are bots creating videos. You can't trust anything that you see on TikTok on the reels. It's like I show my husband, so I'm going, is this real to you? And he's just going, no, that's definitely not real because he's seen something weird. You know, there was some motorbike race, anyway, it was quite an inspirational video. But then he's going, no, they might have taken little bits of real footage, but that is not actually real. And so I'm like, you cannot trust what you're seeing and it's just so fake, fake, fake.
Jessica Osborn [00:10:01]:
And like you said, you know, it's so weird that we've just been having the same thoughts. I'm like, truthfulness is really lacking right now in the online business world. And I just feel like there's so many people using, you know, pretense, fake Personas, all of this stuff to sell. And it's like, why have we lost attachment to just the truth? Being really honest, being open, being yourself, like, what is wrong with that? I don't think there's anything wrong with It. It just seems like there's people with no qualifications, no experience, no nothing, you know, trying to show up as something that they're. And I'm just so over it as well, to be fair.
Mia Feilman [00:10:42]:
Integrity has been lost and as a result, we've eroded trust with the customer. So we need to really work hard to rebuild that because customers today come with immaculately tuned bullshit detectors and they are no longer willing to take brands at their word. And if we lose trust, then we lose the ability to be able to sell, because trust is the most essential ingredient in all business transactions.
Jessica Osborn [00:11:08]:
Yeah, that is so, so true. And so I get the concept of this festival, you know, and what it's like when you go to a festival. What's the kind of business aspect, apart from the fact that it's for business people, like, tell us a bit about what are you envisioning someone's going to come? And apart from having a whole lot of fun with other people who run business, what else is it about? What are they going to gain from it?
Fi Johnston [00:11:33]:
I might take this one. So I'm the programming part of the team and my gosh, I have put so much love and effort and attention into working out what we want to happen on the stage and in the audience. So essentially we've decided that there's a few core themes that we really needed to focus on. One of them is marketing. I mean, you can't be successful in business without marketing. Another one is money. Of course. That's my, you know, speciality and also an essential part of business.
Fi Johnston [00:12:05]:
But then beyond that, what are the other things that we think a really wide group of business owners would benefit from? And we have a big focus on using impact and purpose in your business. So we're going to be talking to some really impressive business owners and social enterprise leaders who are making really big impacts in sustainability and social, you know, social causes, but also making money and really getting into the nitty gritty of what that actually looks like. Beyond the marketing slogan, we're going to be talking about what it's like to have a large online community. So we're talking to some creators and influencers and business owners about how they grew a really large audience, how they nurtured that audience, and then how they monetize that or turn that into a business. We have a panel dedicated to our tradie and construction friends, which I'm really excited about, because I think there are so many trades businesses out there and a lot of really good people work in that industry. So we're talking about how to get ahead as a trades business. We have a couple of keynotes. One of them is about how to ethically use AI, which is a huge topic.
Fi Johnston [00:13:22]:
We could probably run a whole festival just about AI and how it's taking over almost every aspect of our lives. We have a panel about leadership. So how do you actually scale a team to a 100 kind of team size and stay sane but also profitable and hitting your impact target? So we'll be talking about how to scale, how to scale a business in a sustainable, sustainable and profitable way. We've got some comedy which isn't just going to be your standard, you know, gag type comedy. It's quite, you know, there'll be a little bit of political content I think in there in the context of small business and what it's like to be somebody who's trying to do a really great thing for the world. We have a keynote from the founders of Project Rocket who are Australia's youth driven movement against online bullying and hate. They have built this incredible business over the last 20 or so years that's impacted millions of school students and they're going to tell us what it's like to build something from. Yeah, from scratch to turning into something with a big team that's impacted students all over Australia and actually all over the world.
Fi Johnston [00:14:42]:
So those are some of the themes that people can expect from the day. Maybe Mia can talk to some of the kind of outcomes that we're hoping will happen for our audience.
Jessica Osborn [00:14:53]:
Yeah, awesome.
Mia Feilman [00:14:55]:
So we, our goal is to help people become more profitable but also deliver on their personal and purpose goals. So whatever that looks like for you, like how do you want to deliver impact in your business? What does that look like for you? And so, you know this idea that you can be purposeful and profitable and we've got people who are two or three steps ahead of us on the stage modeling that behavior. Not Nicole Kidman and Drew Barrymore who are cool. Right. But they're not exactly going to light the path for small business owners like us and you know, we can walk in their shoes behind them and then we want people to come along and feel that small business is easier for them after having attended Ripple because they're able to put a couple of strategies and tactics in action straight away. They're able to forge new collaborations or networks or partners of like minded people. Fee and I collaborate all the time and it has been so helpful for both of our individual businesses to just, you know, have that coming together for mutual benefit. We share the costs we.
Mia Feilman [00:16:09]:
We share the. The work, everything. You know, a problem shared is a problem halved. Right. Yeah, we'd love for that to be really. The foundation of Ripple Festival is that it's much more than just an event. It's actually a community. And without sounding naff, it's actually a movement.
Jessica Osborn [00:16:28]:
Yeah, yeah. And I really think the name Ripple to me is like, you know, imagine the ripple effects that happen after you've come along and. And once you' and engaged like that. Yeah, I can really see. Makes a whole lot of sense. Now, I'm curious because you've talked about this sort of speakers and, you know, they're quite wide ranging. You've probably been getting lots of people coming to you saying, hey, I hear you're running an event and can I please jump in and get on board with this? Talk to us a bit about what's been your thought process behind selecting the right speakers, the ones that you, you think are going to give the. And you mentioned, you know, maybe not the Nicole Kidmans of the world, who are just such a distance away from the people who you envisage who are coming along.
Jessica Osborn [00:17:17]:
Talk a bit about your strategy and your vision behind that.
Fi Johnston [00:17:22]:
Yeah, look, something we did last year, late last year, what we wanted to do was find out who was the speaker that we just had to have on the stage. So we went to our community and we said, we want names, we want receipts, we want to know who are the speakers that are in the small business world who have absolutely rocked your world when you've seen them. And we had many responses, but we did not receive the same number, the same name twice.
Jessica Osborn [00:17:49]:
Wow.
Fi Johnston [00:17:50]:
Which left us with this question, which is like, where who are the most incredible small businesses speakers in Australia? We made the decision early on that we wouldn't be flying in international speakers or performers this year, partly because there's a sustainability aspect to that, but also because we really want to champion Australian small businesses and creators on our stage. So we kind of quite early on decided that we're not going to be having one big name. That's the only big name of the festival. So what we've done is we've created a range of different panels, experiences and, you know, thought provoking exercises for our audience to be part of with some speakers who are quite young in their speaking career. We've got some really seasoned speakers, we've got some big names that people will recognise, some of whom haven't quite been announced yet. Um, but yeah, the sort of process that we went through was to first start with what topics we wanted to cover. So what are the topics that we really want to make sure that we are covering and addressing and doing justice rather than just having all these little tidbits that don't really fit together. Then we started with our community.
Fi Johnston [00:19:07]:
So who are the people that we already know are either incredible speakers or have incredible insights or opinions that are different from, you know, what the sort of status quo is. We're not interested in somebody getting up on stage and telling us something we could have Googled. Right. So that's where it started, is the topics. Then we're looking for expertise. And absolutely, we'd be lying if we said we weren't also looking for people that have some profile and an audience of their own to bring with them. So that's. That was our approach.
Fi Johnston [00:19:44]:
It has not been easy, I've got to say. It's actually been incredibly difficult trying to sort through all of the different people who wanted to be on the stage. We did do an open call out, which was very. A very small window of time, but we did an open call out to try to see what sort of responses we might have. Really disappointingly, most of those pictures were not very high quality in terms of perhaps not very well considered or not very clear about exactly what their point of difference was going to be as a speaker or as a, you know, potential collaborator with us on the stage. We have had to say no to a lot of pictures. And I might hand over to Mia to give her perspective on. Yeah.
Fi Johnston [00:20:33]:
What she's been seeing from. From her perspective about that.
Mia Feilman [00:20:38]:
The other thing that I want to add is that I'm sick of seeing the same people on stage at every event. They all look the same, they all sound the same. And so we are very passionate about represent. And it's not, you know, lip service that we are paying. We have built this festival from the ground up, wanting to highlight minority voices, marginalized communities. So that added another layer of depth to our program that we needed to lgbtq. We needed to consider first nations people. We wanted Greek people, Indian people.
Mia Feilman [00:21:16]:
We wanted, you know, a really rich tapestry because that is Australia, you know.
Jessica Osborn [00:21:22]:
Yeah.
Mia Feilman [00:21:22]:
My parents migrated here from Greece. I am the first generation born in this country. Why is every event white people, you know, like. So that was also, you know, it. I. I call this playing human Tetris, but with feelings.
Jessica Osborn [00:21:41]:
Yeah.
Mia Feilman [00:21:44]:
Okay. So then when we came down to the. The pitches and fee is 100% right. As a marketing strategist, I really wanted to, like, you know, Grab some people and, like, have a little chat to them. Because a lot of the pitches were like, hey, Mia and Fi, I'd love to be at Ripple. I can talk about brand storytelling.
Jessica Osborn [00:22:06]:
Are you serious?
Mia Feilman [00:22:11]:
Yeah. Or, hi, I'm a really experienced speaker. I've spoken at this and that and this and that. I. I'm available if you need me.
Fi Johnston [00:22:20]:
Go.
Jessica Osborn [00:22:22]:
Yeah. What are you going to bring to this? And how do you align with this event? And, you know, I'm sure they've taken a few minutes to look at it, but it just sounds like maybe they didn't. Maybe they went speaking opportunity, submit, like, with no effort in it. And then you think, oh, that to me, signals what that person's level of involvement they feel is. They're like, well, I just rock up on the day. I do my thing, and that's it. And it's like, if you're building a movement, everything you've been saying, it's like you want people who are on board with this, who are actually invested in it themselves, to whatever element. And being a speaker, how amazing.
Jessica Osborn [00:22:58]:
But you've got to be involved. And I think that that involvement starts even before you're selected. Right. Like, let me kind of get on board with what it is that you're creating and how I might fit into that.
Mia Feilman [00:23:08]:
Yeah. Can I actually share the. One of the two pitches that we accepted and why we accepted it? Because I think that this could be really helpful for other people listening along. So Natalie Elzein is speaking at Ripple. She is known to us, she's part of our community, and she is not a very experienced speaker, but she is very good at her craft, which is sales and marketing. And so Natalie bided her time. She bought her ticket to Ripple Festival and said, I am supporting you and what you are doing because we are bootstrapping and bankrolling this festival. I'm buying my ticket.
Mia Feilman [00:23:50]:
I am coming no matter what. She then bided her time and she waited to see how it was playing out. And we were sharing our philosophy and our objectives and our ethical framework and our goals. And then a couple of months in, she said, okay, I've sat back, I've watched, I've listened, and now I understand where I can add value to Ripple Festival. And this is what I think I can bring to the table. And Fi and I were like, can I swear? Fuck, yes. Yes.
Jessica Osborn [00:24:25]:
Yeah, yeah. It's like. And that's something you can apply to almost anything. Right? Like, I think you host a podcast as well, Mia, and the amount of Pictures that I get that are just like, well, here's all about me. And I've spoken here and I've been on this and I'm like, that is irrelevant. Like, great, good on you. Well done. Nice to know.
Jessica Osborn [00:24:45]:
But that's not the reason why I'm bringing you on my podcast. Like, I don't really understand why that's such a difficult concept to get in your brain. Is. It's not about you or who you are. It's about what you're going to bring to the people who are listening. It's about the conversation we're having. Like, this podcast isn't about me. I started it to give more women a voice, you know, especially not just always the big names.
Jessica Osborn [00:25:08]:
It's like, well, let's have people come on here. Let's have a conversation. Let's talk some real talk. Let's talk about the stuff that isn't the highly polished, you know, or the boring how to's on Google. Let's talk about the things that are happening behind the scenes. And. And it's like, if you'd listen to even a quarter of an episode of mine, even the intro, you would kind of have got a feel for what it's about, and it just shows. And then they say, yes, I follow the podcast.
Jessica Osborn [00:25:35]:
Yes, I've written the review. I'm like, lie, lie, straight up. Straight up lying. And you want me to bring you as a guest on the podcast? Like, it's just not a great way to start the whole thing, is it? So I completely see, that's. That's amazing advice.
Mia Feilman [00:25:50]:
What do you look for, Jess, for, in your guests?
Jessica Osborn [00:25:55]:
Well, authenticity and that. And that. Truthfulness to begin with. Like, you know, if you say that you've been enjoying the podcast, but then you just give me some kind of bog standard, we send this to everyone stuff. I'm like, yeah, you haven't. You're just saying that you have because you think that you should. And you know, I'm like, I would like a guest to have a look and, and get the feel for and then say, this is the topic I would love to bring to your podcast. Not like, here are all the different things I can talk on and give me the job of picking what that would be for them.
Jessica Osborn [00:26:27]:
I'm like, no, no, I'm not doing that. You know, you want to come on here, you do the work of figuring out what is going to be the right, more relevant and most valuable thing that you can offer to, to my show, and we can go from there. Like, I may still go, yeah, that's cool. How about we, you know, change that a little bit if I don't think it's a right fit? But at least you've been upfront and, you know, you've kind of stood in your expert zone and said, this is what I can bring and this is what I'm going to talk about. If you don't know that, why are you asking me to choose what your topic is like?
Fi Johnston [00:26:59]:
I think it's such a great point, Jess. In the context of both a podcast and a festival, and any kind of collaboration is, it feels to me like we've lost the connection that the audience is who we are there to serve. So, yeah, when we're thinking about the festival, I've been imagining myself watching the people that I'm programming on the stage, but I'm also physically imagining what the crowd is going to be doing while this is happening. I'm imagining the conversations they're going to be having, the thoughts how they're moving around the event. And what's so important to us as festival promoters is that the people we have on stage are there to serve the audience, not themselves. And I think a lot of pictures that all of us receive for our podcasts and for other speaking gigs and the. Like this, it's not about the speaker, it's actually about the contribution that they want to make. And I think that's something we can all reconnect back to as business owners.
Jessica Osborn [00:27:58]:
Yeah, yeah. That you've just summed it up perfectly. And I think there's just so much of that we were talking before about all the, you know, the bots and the reaching out on in the DMs, and it's all like, me, me, me, me, want, want, want, want. And I'm like, whoa, like, I haven't even said I have a need or an interest. And you like, trying to force me some video on me, like, go away, please. You know, it's just, everyone take a big step back and have a think about it. Like, yes, we're running a business. Yes, we want it to be profitable.
Jessica Osborn [00:28:27]:
You want an event to be profitable. And we can. I'd love to hear in a moment about, you know, how you making that happen. Because obviously running an event is a big outlay, but it is so much about the audience. And the reason why is because it's the experience.
Fi Johnston [00:28:41]:
Right?
Jessica Osborn [00:28:41]:
Especially with something like an event, you're creating an experience. You're not creating a platform for sales or come along and give out 100 business cards or like no one goes away going great, I handed out 500 business cards. Like, that's not the experience, right? It's like, wow, I came along, this was such a cool time. I elevated who I felt like I was. I met people, they allowed me to expand. It's like, it's the space that you're in, it's the feeling that you get from being there. Whether you remember half of the things that you learned or not, it kind of doesn't matter in a way because you will, they're still in there somewhere. You know, the stuff you learn will come out.
Jessica Osborn [00:29:20]:
You'll go away with so much knowledge, but you'll also go away with that experience. And that's what draws people back, it's what keeps them coming back. It is the most important thing. And you clearly are so in tune with that because you're telling me you're imagining what they're going to be doing. Like you're creating the experience from your planning, which I just think is so, so important. So tell me a bit about the, you know that running the event you've mentioned. We haven't even really touched on this at all. So I'm going to open up a giant kind of question which is building and creating an event kind of in public.
Jessica Osborn [00:29:57]:
Like, you know, you've been doing it very publicly instead of creating in the background and then launching or releasing it. So I want to hear about that and I also want to hear about the financial aspect. You know, it's a big undertaking to run an event, especially a two day event of the size and magnitude that you're talking about. How did you, how are you managing that in terms of, you know, obviously you would have created a budget and a plan to begin with. How, how are you making that profitable and actually possible to do when you're two small business owners, you know, not giant companies backed with huge marketing budgets. So, yeah, keen to kind of hear, but all of that, I might be bootstrapping a business.
Fi Johnston [00:30:41]:
I'll kick this one off with the money side of things and then I'll let Mia speak to how we're building in public. Look, the first thing to say is whenever you start doing something, it ends up being bigger than you imagined that it would be. So, you know, Mia and I are both very creative, big thinking people and so have we bitten off more than we can chew? Probably that's the first thing to say is that, you know, it's turned quite big and only time will tell whether that was the right approach. But in terms of how we're managing the kind of financial perspective of it. So the first thing to note is that we've both had to really change how we're working in our existing businesses to accommodate the amount of time that needs to be allocated to this business. So that was a financial. We've put a financial constraint around our other businesses. The second thing that we did is we're always trying to test the market before we go further.
Fi Johnston [00:31:40]:
So we did our first ticket release in February for a November event, which is a really long lead time and we needed to do that because it's one thing to have people tell us that they're interested, it's a whole nother thing for them to hand over their debit card and actually add to cart. So we did a ticket release in February. Our first five ticket holders are now our gold and platinum ticket holders and we'll be spoiling them rotten at the event. But we did that to make sure that we actually had real interest in what we were doing. I think the building in public has allowed us to do some really great brand building and kind of attract sponsors and that sort of thing along the way. But yes, we had an initial budget. We're kind of quite far away from that at the moment and trying. One of the difficult things about events is you don't know how many people will be there until probably a week before.
Fi Johnston [00:32:38]:
So we're trying really hard to stage the amount of money that we're spending and investing on artists and venue and marketing and advertising and support. And probably where we've made some, you know, difficult decisions is around how much of the work we're doing ourselves, as opposed to paying others to do so. In our other businesses we have support and we love investing in support for our businesses. But with an event, the ticket money that's being given to us is not ours. So we need to actually leave that sitting in a bank account waiting for the actual event to happen. Which means that in the lead up between here and now, the only money that we have to spend is our own money, which we've both put money into the business and our time. So that's probably kind of a snapshot into how we're doing it. We've tried to stagger things.
Fi Johnston [00:33:32]:
We have kind of plan A, B, C and D in terms of how many people end up coming to the event. But we've certainly passed the threshold already to say that, yes, the event is definitely going ahead.
Jessica Osborn [00:33:46]:
Yeah. Amazing. That's so good. I love the idea. You know, and really smart to get that actual proof that the concept is one that is, you know, there is demand that people will pay and come to by doing that early release. Because, you know, that was really like all the time you put in, you didn't have to put in everything in order to find out whether it works or not. You're like, no, we've actually now got that proof of concept, then you've got more people on board. So as it ramps up, it's just a matter of a few logistics more than anything, right? How many people and how many food options do you need and toilets and all of those things.
Jessica Osborn [00:34:27]:
I remember my days of running corporate events and it was like, like, you know, everything's in the balance until right at the end and then you know what you're going to need to support it. But that's a really smart way of doing it. So you mentioned it sort of helped to create a bit of a movement. Obviously it's giving it visibility to be building it in public. So from my marketing perspective I was thinking really smart idea to do it that way and to not sort of, you know, just surprise launch it on people at the end. But it's, you know, obviously you've got challenges as well as benefits to doing it. So do you want to talk bit about that, Mia?
Mia Feilman [00:35:03]:
So I think building in public is a really underrated strategy for small business owners. We don't have a lot that can sort of be a bit of a competitive advantage to bigger brands. But we have this, you know, like if we think about even south by Southwest, it is an American owned franchise. I don't know who the owners of south by Southwest are. They're not going to be doing founder led content. It seems quite faceless. And so while they have so much more money and reputation and they can go and afford and put whoever they want on the stage. And I'm, you know, Fee and I are at such a big disadvantage compared to that I can create that kind of founder led content vulnerable.
Mia Feilman [00:35:47]:
Like let's go on a journey where there are high highs and low lows and we can make it really quite experiential that south by Southwest can't do. And there are so many great examples of brands who've been super successful by building in public. So Brittany Saunders from Fate the Label, you know, like from warehouse dramas to manufacturing faults to staffing issues, like people are so invested in her journey. And then the other example that I love, which is just so left field, I discovered the Luggage brand July from LinkedIn you know, like, we think about LinkedIn as being B2B service based businesses, but here I am discovering a retail and e commerce based business from the founders of LinkedIn who have been building in public since COVID And you know what it was like for them to launch a Luggage brand just as Covid hit and going into bankruptcy to now a few years later being named the official Luggage partner of the Australian Olympic team, doing collaborations with Oriton and Qantas. And I'm like, I am so invested, you know, like, and like, you know, I, I feel part of this in a way that I could never feel for a faceless corporation. And so, yeah, this has been our strategy. The thing with building in public just though is that you have to be prepared to fail in public. You know, you can't just be like, here's all the good things that happened and then gloss over all the bad things.
Mia Feilman [00:37:27]:
And you know, there have been things that we've done with Ripple that we're like, you know what? That was not good. That did not go well. Okay, we won't be doing that again. And so a lot of people are embarrassed or afraid to be that vulnerable. We're not. Because no one wants the polished end result. Like, no one cares that you are flying business class and you're at a luxury hotel. It's so unrelatable.
Mia Feilman [00:37:57]:
What they care is how you got there and happened along the way. How the sausage is being made. Behind the scenes of Ripple Festival is much more interesting. Then here is a finished glossy event with blazers. But yeah, we would discourage blazers.
Jessica Osborn [00:38:19]:
That's so funny. Now I do have a question on this because it is an interesting one and I know that I've had many conversations with people over the years about, you know, how they share, what sort of stuff they share, you know, being authentic and open totally and very much on board with it. But I've also seen some, what you almost call train wrecks where somebody is kind of sharing almost like the very messy middle, like the full breakdown, but they have no actual insight at that point in time. They're just, it's almost like using social media as their therapist and just being like a bleh. And I, I'm like, okay, I get that you're kind of sharing where you're at and what you're going through from a, you know, if you, if you are someone who's sort of leading people and it's also about what you do. Then I was like, there's a real fine line between that sort of vulnerability and then sharing it once you're sort of through it and you've got the lesson to impart, you've got the, the insight to deliver at the end as well as sharing what happened. And so I'm curious to hear your thoughts because I think, you know, whether there's a difference between, you know, obviously building a product and the journey of finding suppliers and the design. You know, I've kind of been through some of that myself.
Jessica Osborn [00:39:35]:
The previous business, I totally understand how hilarious it can be and, or an event and, you know, some of the things and mistakes that are being made versus, you know, a business where it's a lot more expertise based and some of the stuff that, you know, you may think I should share this to be vulnerable. So I'm keen to hear if that made sense to you because I was trying not to preempt what you're going to say and really keep it really open. But yeah, I'd love to hear what your thoughts on that are like, what stuff to share, what's really good to share that shows the ground roots and what to maybe save for later.
Mia Feilman [00:40:07]:
Yeah, it really goes back to what Fi was saying before about how we are ultimately here to serve the audience. So what is going to be valuable and interesting to them? So if people want to be speakers and their pitches are being rejected, then us sharing our journey with speaker selection and what we're looking for and how we decided to choose the speakers is actually quite useful to the audience. I'm a big believer in transparency in terms of versus the glorification and the romanticization of small business. Right. There are so many people like you were talking about Jess at the beginning saying that it's so easy to scale a business to seven figures in your sleep and get passive income and. And that's just simply not true. And so I want people to go into business events with their eyes wide open. Hey, this is what you need to consider if you are planning on starting a festival.
Mia Feilman [00:41:08]:
And this is what it takes. You know, us bankrolling it in the first year, me on the tools, building the website fee, programming a festival, even though she is not a programming director but has done done a sensational job so that people can go, right, this is exactly what it looks like. Not this polished veneer there to self serve.
Jessica Osborn [00:41:33]:
Yeah, that one word you said, what is of value to the audience? Like, I think that is really your litmus test, right. Like there's so much that you could share and there's. You will no doubt have more stories as well.
Fi Johnston [00:41:47]:
Once.
Jessica Osborn [00:41:47]:
Once things have happened and come out and you're launching it, you can go back and even share more of what did happen, maybe some of the personal journeys that you went on or things like that. But yeah, I really love how you describe that because that to me just makes so much sense. Share what's going on in the moment when it's of value to your audience. Is it of value to share your breakdown right now? Well, not unless you've got the value part of that, as in this is what's happened in now what's going to happen instead of I'm just in pieces and. And that's where I've seen some people do that kind of in the moment content. And. And I think, oh, that's. You've kind of got the idea of being vulnerable, but applying it in a way that's probably not of value to your business or your audience.
Jessica Osborn [00:42:36]:
Um, so can I add a little.
Fi Johnston [00:42:38]:
Bit of context to this part of the conversation? So something for people listening to know is that I've been in business nearly 15 years, is MIA has been self employed for 12 years. We're not beginners at business, but we also have each other. And I think that's something that actually makes it much easier for us to build in public and to be a little bit more vulnerable with our audience is because we've got each other to debrief with and go through the highs and lows. And we have both had really difficult moments in the building of this. It has not all been easy. We haven't agreed on everything, although we've agreed on almost everything, which has been great. But, you know, it's much harder to build something in public when it's just you on your own or when you're really new to business. Because there's just so much context that Mia and I have as such, seasoned business owners.
Fi Johnston [00:43:32]:
And I think that there is a huge part of the Internet where vulnerability porn, trauma porn is kind of used as a marketable form of content. And I think that it's. It's really damaging. It's really damaging to people who do have trauma and who have real vulnerabilities that they're not safe to speak about yet. And that's certainly not a sort of a line that Mia and I want to cross. We want to talk about things that are really going on behind the scenes, but not exposing our audience to our kind of deep traumas or. Or that sort of thing.
Jessica Osborn [00:44:12]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it sounds like you're doing it beautifully. Is there anything that you could say already in just the journey since you began this project, that you're like, well we would do this differently if we were doing it again. I don't know whether you ever will be because I guess now you've kind of started this even next year it'll be an iteration of the original. Right. So if you're ever to go, we're going to start something brand new from scratch as a partnership, do it in public. Are there any kind of key lessons or learnings that you've had so far?
Mia Feilman [00:44:46]:
Yeah. So we sort of briefly touched, touched on the reality of events post Covid and it comes down to about 70 or 80% of people are buying tickets in the month of the event. So as an event organizer, you're really white knuckling it right to the end. So with the benefit of hindsight, what we might have, should have, have kind of probably have done was cap the event at 200 people for the first year and be like, there's only 200 tickets. When they're gone, they're gone. And then we can budget for that and we can program for that. Whereas we've kind of kept it open ended and as a result it's really, really hard to plan. Like, can we afford a seven piece jazz band? I don't know.
Mia Feilman [00:45:30]:
Like we won't, we might not know until the week before the event. In which case is it too late to go and get a seven piece jazz band and then will the seven piece jazz band help us sell tickets? So it's a chicken and egg scenario. So I'm kind of thinking that maybe year one would have been a bit more defined in terms of what exactly the value proposition is, how many people are going to be in the room. And then once we would have had the brand awareness and the brand equity and the, you know, even the content that will come out of year one, you could have made year two what is actually going to be year one.
Jessica Osborn [00:46:16]:
That sounds like a very wise piece of hindsight. But you know, you're now you're on the train so it's rolling and it's happening and you're doing it the way that you're doing it, which is awesome. So are you net then putting in some strategies in place because of that that are that are helping you to. I guess not. I do find it curious as well. Sorry. Just because I'm like that whole thing with COVID I get it during COVID that you know, because we were having things and I had to have travel canceled, I actually Tried to run two retreats during that time each year. It got to like, I was like, oh, no canceling.
Jessica Osborn [00:46:55]:
And then I'll do it next year. I actually started planning and started putting it out and then all over again, I'm like. And so I guess that left me a bit of a scar in terms of do I go through this process of running a live event again? But in terms of me being a participant at one, I've got far less issue with that. I don't know whether maybe in Melbourne it's different because that's where you're hosting it. And it was so locked down during COVID that maybe people's experience and how they now perceive locking themselves into going to events maybe a little bit different because we were lucky here on the Sunshine Coast. It was definitely a lot less chaotic than in Melbourne.
Fi Johnston [00:47:36]:
Yeah, look, I think the way that we're trying to work around the, the way that people buy tickets for in person events is that we knew that the people who bought tickets first would be from our existing community. And what we've tried to do is reward them with access to a, a series of events in the lead up to the festival that's included in their initial ticket price. So we've already had events in Perth and Brisbane and Melbourne. We've done multiple online events and people who bought their ticket already got to come to all of those at no additional cost. And we have more events scheduled in the lead up. So that was one way that we wanted to reward people who bought tickets early. Another thing that we've been trying to do is, yeah, just be really kind of. We're being so thoughtful in our speaker and performer inclusions and we already have a program that is absolutely incredible and ready to.
Fi Johnston [00:48:38]:
Ready to go. But we would like to be able to add some more music and comedy to the program. But we need to sell tickets in order to do that. So we're in. We definitely are in the chicken and egg basket. Our sponsors have been absolutely amazing in not just helping us to have faith financially, but also seeing big sponsors like Squarespace say we back you. The partnership we have with Squarespace has been absolutely incredible and the money is amazing. But also just just that an organization and a team like that looked at these two women and said, we are going to back you.
Fi Johnston [00:49:22]:
Yeah, we've also, yeah, also had great support from Hotel Indigo, which is our accommodation partner. They backed us right from the start and said, we want to be your hotel choice and we want to support you in whatever way we can. Our Speakers have been amazing in trying to kind of market what we're doing. And we're very lucky that the venue is so flexible. It has all of the infrastructure that we need and it will be there whether we have 300 people or 3,000. So it's such a scalable venue. We've been very lucky to find such an incredible accessible also. So it's extremely accessible for persons in wheelchair and with mobility challenges.
Fi Johnston [00:50:09]:
The food there is amazing and they do it every day. So it's like we've got this model of delivery where we can scale up and scale down, and I think that brings both Mia and I a lot of comfort that we can scale up and down, even up until a week before the event.
Jessica Osborn [00:50:28]:
Yeah.
Fi Johnston [00:50:29]:
And we've also been really choosy about which support we have brought on board in our business already. So we have an event manager who's been fantastic. The venue has been fantastic. We have an audio visual crew who are absolute experts, and they are going to make the festival sound and feel and look amazing. So having that team behind us makes it feel like it's not just us and our sponsors and the people who've already invested in tickets are the ones that are helping us keep the faith.
Jessica Osborn [00:51:04]:
Love it. I was wondering, you know, if there's anything that you guys feel willing to share, you know, doing something like this with someone who is, you know, a friend and now a business best friend, a bbf, where, you know, has there been any challenges in their balance between the friendship and obviously, the business partnership? Both are nodding.
Mia Feilman [00:51:31]:
Yeah. So, of course there have been. We, like Fi said, we've definitely agreed more than we. We've disagreed and so. But that's. That's the normal course of friendships and also business relationships. It really comes down to a deep respect for one another, deep love for one another. What I say to people considering this is don't go and embark on a festival first.
Mia Feilman [00:51:58]:
Go and see if you work well together on other mini projects. So Fee and I have been collaborating for three years on big and small projects leading up to Ripple Festival to the point where we're now business partners. So it started by us hosting an International Women's Day event at Fee's office. And, you know, because we've both been burned in the past by being asked to collaborate with someone and then we have to do all the work, we have to front all the cash, and we're like, we're left holding the bag. And I'm like, you know what? No, thank you. Don't want to do that, that. Whereas with that International Women's Day event, it went so well, we both, you know, put in the fair share of effort. We have a different skill set.
Mia Feilman [00:52:41]:
So money, scary numbers, you know, like.
Jessica Osborn [00:52:46]:
Don'T come, don't talk to me about it.
Mia Feilman [00:52:50]:
So that really helps. I've been in a failed business partnership before, and so is Fee. So we have that lift experience of what wrong looks like and what. And how badly it can go. And so we've learned from those experiences and we've grown from those experiences, and we understand the value of really early and upfront communication. And I think one of the best things we did is the division and conquering, which was really Fee's suggestion. So I'm playing to my strengths, which is marketing, but also I've discovered I'm really fucking good at partnerships and sponsorships. And that has been, like, a really awesome learning for me in this journey, that this is a new part of my skill set that I didn't even know existed.
Jessica Osborn [00:53:33]:
Wow.
Mia Feilman [00:53:35]:
Fee handling the money, of course. But as a byproduct of me doing partnerships and sponsorships and marketing, she needed to do the programming. Turns out she's flipping epic at it. And so, yeah, it's kind of like, we know what we need to do. There's less stepping on each other's toes on a daily basis.
Jessica Osborn [00:53:56]:
Yeah, no, I love that. And it means that you're both not meddling in the same thing. You're kind of like, you've got your roles, you're doing your thing, and then you come together and, and, and connect and it sounds like, you know, definitely, as a numbers person, having that structure of the. The planning, it kind of does seem like a really good fit, even if you hadn't ever done it before. So congrats, guys. Do you want to give a, like, a, like, last plug for the event? And anywhere that someone could, if they've been listening, they want to find out a bit more and see what you're up to, that they could go and check it out.
Fi Johnston [00:54:32]:
I'd like to share that we need to be in person with each other more often. I think that we've lost so much about the beauty and the creativity and the energy that comes from being with real people in a physical room. And I think that coming to Ripple Festival is an investment in your business. It's an investment in your mental health, in your physical health and your enjoyment. You don't have good ideas, working your guts out, sitting at a laptop five days a week. You have great ideas when you give your brain different things to look at, smell, feel, hear and experience. And I just know that the ripple effect, effect for every person that's part of Ripple is going to be. It's just gonna be huge.
Fi Johnston [00:55:18]:
And it's gonna spark new ideas, new partnerships, new business best friends, new businesses, new podcasts, new creative projects. And so that is my pitch, is that if you value human connection as much as Mir and I do, we really want to see you at Ripple Festival. The website is ripplefestival au. We're very active on Instagram and we're actually really friendly people and we would love to hear from you in the DMs or the emails as well. Mia might have something else to share too.
Mia Feilman [00:55:50]:
Oh, I think you nailed it. It's going to be a full body experience. It is going to be a good time. We're going to dance, we're going to laugh, we're going to sing. Which is why I said preferably no blazers, because I just want people to let loose. But we're all there to help each other run sustainable and profitable small businesses. So, yeah, we would love to see people come to Ripple Festival. And if you're thinking about it and have questions, reach out.
Mia Feilman [00:56:20]:
We are super friendly.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:22]:
Yeah, love that. Mia and Fi, thank you so much for coming on, having this great conversation today. I know that we only really scratch the surface, but it has been an absolute pleasure to meet you both and have you on here. And I love the Sound Rifle Festival. So please, if you're listening, reach out the Instagram in the show notes. The website is in the show notes. Head over. And if you are in Melbourne, you'd be absolutely crazy not to just buy yourself a ticket.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:51]:
I think why not go and, you know, wherever else you are in Australia, surely it's not that big of a hop, skip and a jump to get on a plane and shoot down to Melbourne for a couple of days. So thank you, guys.
Mia Feilman [00:57:03]:
Thank you so much. Jess, we really appreciate the opportunity.
Fi Johnston [00:57:07]:
Thank you for having us.
