Jessica Osborn [00:00:00]:
If you've reached a level in your business where you feel like your growth is stalled or plateaued, then today in this episode, we're talking about why you can't outwork your thought habits. Yes, we're going to talk about some of the things that are going on inside that could be causing the effect on the outside. So stay tuned. This is coming right up. Joining me on the podcast today to talk to us all about the thought habits that we have that are driving the results that we seeing in the 3D world, in our environment, is the beautiful Amy Kemp. Now, Amy is a certified habit finder coach and she helps leaders, entrepreneurs, business professionals to understand how deeply their thought habits are impacting every part of their work and lives. We're, we're going into the subconscious layer of your brain and, and identifying what, what are those thought habits that you have that you don't even realize are there that are running your life or your business? So, so interesting. Amy has an absolute wealth of knowledge around this to share and we, we go into some really interesting questions and she shares some great stories.
Jessica Osborn [00:01:14]:
So I know you absolutely going to love this. She's also written a book called I see you and it's a guide for women who want to make more, have more, and be more without more work. So love that we are defin on the same page in terms of, you know, why we're here on this planet is to live, to be, to have a great life. And, you know, your business should be something that is supporting that as opposed to detracting from it. So if you also believe in that philosophy and, and want to be living more and, you know, having a successful business at the same time, then you're going to absolutely love what Amy has to share with us today and you will hopefully learn something about yourself too. So without further ado, let me play this interview for Hello. So I'm here now with Amy Kemp. Amy, welcome to She's a Business Podcast.
Amy Kemp [00:02:09]:
Thanks so much for having me.
Jessica Osborn [00:02:11]:
Funny.
Amy Kemp [00:02:11]:
We're on. I was just, just before I got on, was talking to my friend about a potential trip to New Zealand. So we have it sort of in the idea bucket right now.
Jessica Osborn [00:02:23]:
Yeah. Oh, wow. That would be awesome. Yeah. Yeah, I grew up there and my parents live there, so I like to kind of think of it as my second home. And yeah, we go at least once a year, sometimes twice because it's just so good. But yes, definitely you should go. It is very special place, special in my heart as well.
Amy Kemp [00:02:45]:
But I love that. Yes, it's definitely on my list, so.
Jessica Osborn [00:02:49]:
Yeah, that's amazing. Now, Amy is a habit finder coach, But, Amy, can you tell us a bit about what you do, who you help, and what is a habit finder coach?
Amy Kemp [00:03:00]:
I would love to. First, I'll tell you. I've been doing this work for eight years, and I started the business completely by accident. I mean, I don't know if you have heard people doing that, but I had no business.
Jessica Osborn [00:03:17]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:03:18]:
I had no strategic plan. I didn't think I was starting a business. But it turns out that this work I do now, I use an assessment tool. It's called the habit finder. And what it does, it. It takes a picture of your subconscious habits of thinking. So below the surface. About two thirds of our thoughts are happening below the surface every day in our subconscious mind.
Amy Kemp [00:03:47]:
And the tool measures risk that your brain will feel follow a certain pathway. And most of the pathways are there because we're hardwired to survive. So you learned, for example, breathing is a subconscious thought. Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:04:04]:
We don't have.
Amy Kemp [00:04:05]:
We don't want to have to think about breathing, but we know to survive, we need to breathe on a regular basis. But in our lives, these subconscious habits of thinking are operating, and they're giving us outcomes in our ability to connect with people, to complete tasks, to embrace structure, to find joy in what we're doing and what we're creating. And they're impacting us every minute of every day, and we're unaware of them. So this tool allows you to kind of get under the surface and see where you have risk and where they could be potentially creating resistance to growth and creation.
Jessica Osborn [00:04:41]:
Wow. I have lots of questions to ask, but who do you most help? You know, like, everybody has thoughts, so totally. Yeah. What is the kind of, like, channel that you've gone down in terms of who you're helping and why? Like, what. What is this thing?
Amy Kemp [00:04:57]:
I'm gonna be really specific in my answer because I had a conversation today with a woman who so encapsulates my people. So this woman has done some things. I mean, she has built a successful career. She went through a difficult divorce, made her way through that to a second marriage that's very happy, Raised two kids brilliantly. You know, she is active in our community, and she has sort of a. A reputation for being successful. Yeah, our conversation, the below the surface was more interesting and more vulnerable. And this is just a potential client.
Amy Kemp [00:05:49]:
What I found under the surface is that she has some subconscious habits of thinking that she developed through surviving being a Single parent. And those include perfectionism, overworking, being driven where like you can't even stop you. The thought of stopping producing is terrifying. Right. Just the thought of getting off of that hamster wheel and, and she knows that she was able to articulate it but like also knows that she's starting to see some red flags in her body. Like her body is telling her you can't keep operating like this at this pace. You know, here's the thing. When you employ a survival habit of thinking, when there's a habit of thinking that helped you survive, when you employ it past the point of needing becomes detrimental and damaging.
Amy Kemp [00:06:50]:
So for her, this, this work hard, provide for my kids, never think about my own needs. Build the, build the thing, you know, succeed, succeed, succeed. It really served her well in those years of survival, but now she doesn't need to do that. And she's still working that way.
Jessica Osborn [00:07:11]:
Right.
Amy Kemp [00:07:11]:
And, and basically I said to her, you're going to get sick. Like you can't have, you can't be living in fight or flight and then have all of the cortisol pumping through your body and not have, you know, outcomes that aren't great.
Jessica Osborn [00:07:27]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:07:27]:
And that's the impact of these underneath habits of thinking is that she wasn't, she's not like consciously thinking about that. She, she could it. But it's affecting her in so many ways. So those are my people. Like she's a good just example, you know, that was fresh in my mind today.
Jessica Osborn [00:07:47]:
I love that a picture speaks a thousand words. Right. So it's so cool to be specific. Now the first question I have, which came to me as you were talking is how similar are your conscious thoughts and your subconscious thoughts? Like. Or do you say sub or unconscious? I hear people say either way.
Amy Kemp [00:08:06]:
Either. Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:08:07]:
The thoughts beneath the surface, like you're one person. You've lived through the same experiences. And we've got all these subconscious thoughts that are happening, you know, in most of our thoughts throughout the day. They're just sort of driving all of the automatic behaviors and things that we're doing. But do you see like how linked are they to thoughts that you are having in your conscious mind?
Amy Kemp [00:08:29]:
Do you think that's an interesting question? I think they're very different. Just in my experience of doing this for eight years, I know that to change a subconscious thought you have to bring it up to the conscious thought. And you, you absolutely must be able to have language for it to like identify this is what's happening so that you can choose a different thought and start to create a new pathway. And I think that's why I believe they're so. Because let me give you an example of that. It just happened to me. So it's a good one. There's a habit of thinking where your brain.
Amy Kemp [00:09:14]:
Most entrepreneurs have it, but it's called fantastical. It means my brain as an entrepreneur can vividly see what it is that I want to create. So much so that if while I was visualizing, let's say achieving a goal in my business or earning an amount of money or you know, creating an offering and then seeing it come to fruition, when I'm just imagining nothing has happened. Right. If you hooked my body up to monitors, it would respond as if the thing was happening right in front. Like it would, it would tell you it was happening. That's how vivid it is in my. My ability to see that.
Amy Kemp [00:09:55]:
The risk of that is that you can quickly go to fantasy or catastrophe and you can kind of swing back and forth between those two like a pendulum. So I just published my first book. Well, when you publish a book, there's like a pre order phase where you can't see how many books are sold. But you can see on Amazon or different platforms. Right. That books are being sold because the rankings change.
Jessica Osborn [00:10:23]:
So.
Amy Kemp [00:10:24]:
So you can see like, oh, someone must be buying it because the ranking is going higher and higher.
Jessica Osborn [00:10:28]:
Okay.
Amy Kemp [00:10:29]:
So it's about like a three month period where I'm aware that people are pre ordering, but I don't have the number until the day it's officially published. My brain got attached to a number like, and I don't even know how I came up with the number. I don't even, like, I have never published a book. I don't even. Like it was pulled a number out of somewhere. Yeah. Right. This is how many have sold.
Amy Kemp [00:10:54]:
Like, that was the narrative. And I attached my feeling of success to that number without even knowing it at the subconscious level. Okay. The day comes, I get to find out how many books have sold.
Jessica Osborn [00:11:07]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:11:09]:
The person from the publishing company gets on and she's walking me through the dashboard and the number comes up and it's about a third of the number I had been imagining.
Jessica Osborn [00:11:21]:
Okay.
Amy Kemp [00:11:22]:
First of all, the imagining was a fantasy. And I built this whole world that didn't exist. Right. I didn't even know I was really doing it consciously, but it was happening and I was living in it. Okay. I crashed, like emotionally just crashed because it wasn't what I expected. I felt like all of these thoughts started swirling like, this is a failure. I shouldn't have done this.
Amy Kemp [00:11:48]:
Why did I even write? So here's the best part of the story. And I go, I go immediately to catastrophe, right? Like I'm a failure as an author, okay? Like I'm just, I'm legitimately like going to lose my home and be abandoned by my family. I mean, it's so ridiculous. Like I don't believe any of that, but my brain will go there really fast. So I walk out to the kitchen, my 18 year old son is out there and he says, hey mom, did you get to find out like about the number of books you've sold? Because we've been talking about it as a family. And I said, I did, I just found out today. And he said, well, how was it? And I said, well, I got to tell you, I'm super disappointed. Like, I just feel so sad.
Amy Kemp [00:12:36]:
Like I'm just, I feel like it's not a lot compared to what I thought it would be.
Jessica Osborn [00:12:40]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:12:41]:
And so he's standing there and he kind of looks at me and he cocks his head and I'll never forget, he like turns his head and he said, well, isn't it like the second day? And like instantly it brought the subconscious thought to my conscious mind. I was like, oh my gosh, I just did it. I just did what I work with people on all the time, right? But his words like, and he humor and just his addressing like, oh, well, it just started. So maybe you have to actually work at something to build it and you have to take millimeter steps, right? Yeah, yeah, it, it like shook me out of it so fast. So while my brain will still do that on its own, I can catch it faster because I have language and I can name it and I can say, oh, there it was. Fantasy, catastrophe. That's all just thoughts. It's not just thoughts, right, that are happening.
Amy Kemp [00:13:38]:
So yeah, that's a, that's a good example.
Jessica Osborn [00:13:41]:
That's really cool. And when you talk about thought habits, is it the habit of like recognizing I tend to go into fantasy or I go to catastrophe or are they actual habits? As in you, you've got more specific habits that a person would have where they, you know, have something on repeat, I guess in their brain. Like, can you explain? Yeah, I'll open that. What is a thought habit?
Amy Kemp [00:14:09]:
We clarify the last part of the question. Say that part again.
Jessica Osborn [00:14:13]:
Well, so the way I initially was thinking of it when you're saying it was like, you know how you have things on repeat so you might Just have in your brain, you know, it might be something that you're saying to yourself about yourself, which may or may not be true, but you might be thinking it. You might be thinking, you know, it's usually pretty negative. I was like, all the awful things that I say to myself on a regular basis.
Amy Kemp [00:14:37]:
Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:14:38]:
And then those might be a habit because it's something that repeats and occurs often. Or is it the habit of like. So I, I, you know, in listening to your story, my son is someone who, he, he lives in the catastrophe. Like anything. He's like, he's there, he's there. And I'm like, whoa, a case.
Amy Kemp [00:14:58]:
Stop.
Jessica Osborn [00:14:59]:
You know, just because that could happen, that doesn't mean it's going to. What's the actual, you know, the possibility? Let's look at all of the likely things to happen, which are good, you know, And I sort of like, you know, he really needs a lot of help and coaching to get out of that catastrophe place, and he will go there really quickly. So I'm like. So I guess my question was. Yeah. When you're talking about thought habits, is it the tendency to go into fantasy or catastrophe or is it more specifically like, wow, you have a thought habit around your health? Or, you know, like the way I would say, or specific things.
Amy Kemp [00:15:38]:
It's more the first. But it affects your health or it affects your relationship. Right. So, okay, here's another example. One of the habits of thinking that is common with my clients, it's called it. It's the risk is being indifferent. It means that it feels so irritating to you to have to affirm people for just doing their job or just doing what they should be doing. A lot of high achievers get promoted, and then they're leading a lot of people who aren't high achievers.
Amy Kemp [00:16:16]:
Right. And they don't recognize that they are intimidating, that everyone doesn't think like them. So they have this habit of thinking that's saying, I don't need praise, I don't need to be affirmed. It doesn't matter to me. I'm going to do it anyhow. Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:16:33]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:16:33]:
And that habit that causes them to be so irritated with people who need that. But to build a team, people need to be feel seen. They need to feel affirmed. And so I work a lot with clients on. It's like having a savings account you've never cashed in on. You have all of these words that you could use that would make your team function so much more effectively. But this habit of thinking is telling you that that's annoying and you shouldn't have to do that. And it's inhibiting you from being able to build a really cohesive, strong team.
Amy Kemp [00:17:10]:
And it's not. You're not getting the most out of people.
Jessica Osborn [00:17:13]:
Right. Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:17:13]:
So to break it, like, to change it, what we do a lot. One of my clients calls it the today I need to be nice reminder, where she just puts a reminder in her calendar where, like, on Mondays, she says something nice to Joe, and then on Tuesdays she says something nice to Tina, you know, or whatever. But she will go out of her way to find something to affirm. The experiences transformed her team because the people now are not. Now they will do anything for her. They feel so connected to her and so affirmed and so loyal to her. And so this very simple. But she didn't know that was happening.
Amy Kemp [00:18:04]:
Like, she didn't realize how much they needed it and that this habit was keeping her from giving them that. And so she has to make a conscious choice to, like, act differently, to get a different outcome.
Jessica Osborn [00:18:17]:
Yeah. Do you think these thought habits are something that we are kind of built with from birth or like you mentioned with your story before about the lady who had been a single mom and she'd built this whole sort of survival habit of how she thought about work and. And life. Do you think that she had that sort of tendency already before that and then it really sort of solidified through that circumstance, or did she create it at that time? You know, maybe.
Amy Kemp [00:18:50]:
And both. Maybe like a both and yes. And so I do think people are hardwired, like you mentioned your son, to go quickly in a certain direction. Right. Like their brain will have a propensity to move to the worst case scenario.
Jessica Osborn [00:19:10]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:19:11]:
Particularly if you have anxiety and you are wired that way. Right. And I also will say that's not a bad thing to be able to go to catastrophe because sometimes you can see what the worst case is, come back to reality, and take steps to prevent it. So it's not. It's just the fact of. Or are you just letting yourself live in the catastrophe that's the danger zone. Right. Okay.
Amy Kemp [00:19:40]:
And so I do think I lost the question. What was the question?
Jessica Osborn [00:19:44]:
Well, it was like, are we kind of built that way?
Amy Kemp [00:19:47]:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hardwired, like born that way.
Jessica Osborn [00:19:50]:
Are you born a high achiever? Are you always going to be that kind of person? Or is it partly nurtured or brought about through circumstance?
Amy Kemp [00:20:00]:
I think more the second. I. I do think we are. I just took a group of we just got back yesterday from the Galapagos Islands.
Jessica Osborn [00:20:11]:
Oh, wow.
Amy Kemp [00:20:12]:
Where we took a group of people. And what's fascinating about the Galapagos Islands is that the animals are not afraid of you because they have not been hunted or they have no fear. It's like the evolution has worked that out of them.
Jessica Osborn [00:20:34]:
Yeah, yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:20:36]:
So. And as I was watching it all happen, you know, you're like standing a foot away from a sea lion and then like a penguin swims by you. And then, I mean, it was just crazy. Amazing, right? Well, what I thought about when I was observing all of this incredible ecosystem around me was like, a lot of these habits of thinking are because we're trying to survive. And we have learned either generationally or through our life experiences that this is dangerous, for sure. So in my book, I talk a lot about how you can't stifle your intuition in one area and then have access to it in another. So I'll give you an example of that. Like, I have a client who was raised by a parent who is an addict.
Amy Kemp [00:21:27]:
So from a very young age, she parented her younger siblings. She paid the bills, she made sure there were Christmas presents. She did all of the adult things. Her intuition, her subconscious was saying, you shouldn't have to do that. You're not an adult.
Jessica Osborn [00:21:43]:
You.
Amy Kemp [00:21:43]:
But she overrode that to survive.
Jessica Osborn [00:21:46]:
Right.
Amy Kemp [00:21:47]:
And she did a brilliant job of it. I mean, she survived. And I don't really know how she did. Like, it's pretty incredible. So fast forward 20 years later, she's building a business. When I met her, she's working 70 hours a week, 80 hours a week. She's exhausted.
Jessica Osborn [00:22:09]:
She.
Amy Kemp [00:22:11]:
She's legitimately, like, questioning even becoming an entrepreneur because this life is not what she wanted. That's not why she became an entrepreneur. So she could work that much. Right. But what I figured out is, like, she had stifled the thing, the tiny whisper inside of her that says, like, that's enough for today.
Jessica Osborn [00:22:32]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:22:33]:
Or like, I'm tired, she's overriding it.
Jessica Osborn [00:22:36]:
And that was her pattern, right? Totally.
Amy Kemp [00:22:39]:
That's how she survived. And so now she didn't have access to that tiny, like, knowing that intuition inside of her. And so what we worked on was just like, how do we access that? How do you learn to trust that? And you know what else that voice tells you is like, I'm hungry or I'm full.
Jessica Osborn [00:23:01]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:23:01]:
But when. When we override that and we're doing weird things to our bodies and, you know, whatever for long enough, then all the decision are made with our conscious mind and by the end of the day we're exhausted and we don't make great choices when we're tired. Right. So this it's. I'm used. I'm interchanging intuition and subconscious. But I think you can see where I'm going there. It's like we have overridden that but then it becomes problematic where like if she kept going the way she was going.
Amy Kemp [00:23:32]:
Yeah, it was. I mean she was going to die.
Jessica Osborn [00:23:34]:
Like it was.
Amy Kemp [00:23:35]:
You're going, your body can't keep living like that.
Jessica Osborn [00:23:39]:
Wow.
Amy Kemp [00:23:39]:
Really powerful.
Jessica Osborn [00:23:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. How do you like you mentioned before that you've got an assessment tool. I'm curious because the examples you've given are so wide reaching. It's. And I'm guessing each person has something specific but you wouldn't even realize that you're doing it right because it is like you're saying it's a subconscious habit. It is for you. That is just how things are.
Jessica Osborn [00:24:05]:
So client who is feeling frustrated about her team and that that she's like why do I need to praise. Just that they're doing their job. It's just what's expected. Like totally get that. I've been there before too. You know when you're like yeah, you would actually wouldn't even be thinking or looking there. So how do you uncover these things and actually find what is it? What is that subconscious habit that you have? I know.
Amy Kemp [00:24:34]:
I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful for this tool because the habit finder assessment. So you can actually take it for free on my website. So you can just go to amykemp.com and take it. You get your results right away and it's very comprehensive. So it's not like a two paragraph result. It's a 44 page PDF that you can really dive into.
Jessica Osborn [00:25:01]:
Wow.
Amy Kemp [00:25:02]:
What? I. I received this like assessment as a client first about 15 years ago. I was leading a huge sales team of about a thousand people.
Jessica Osborn [00:25:15]:
Wow.
Amy Kemp [00:25:15]:
I will never forget when I talked to the guy, I didn't even want to take it. My friend told me I should. I was like so annoyed. You know, it was just like I was like whatever. I trusted my friend. I took it and then. Okay. When I read it and then talked to the coach that I worked with, I was almost angry for days because I knew it to be true but I had never thought it before.
Amy Kemp [00:25:47]:
And it was like this huge blind spot where I couldn't see it but it was impacting everything about my leadership, about My business and my business through this work basically quadrupled in size. And the only thing I changed was me.
Jessica Osborn [00:26:07]:
Yeah. Amazing.
Amy Kemp [00:26:09]:
I mean, I did change external things, obviously, as I change. But like, really what I changed were some very deep seated. One of mine was I had a really hard time letting people struggle. I felt very responsible for their experience. I could not hold space for someone without picking up all of their energy and their experience and taking it with me. Yeah. And it was so exhausting me that I was near the point of like burnout. Like, I didn't want to lead any more people.
Amy Kemp [00:26:45]:
I was just like, I'm done with all of you.
Jessica Osborn [00:26:47]:
Right.
Amy Kemp [00:26:47]:
And it is. I think my natural genius is a bit. That I'm an empath. So I naturally, like, feel people. I don't just talk to them. So I had to learn how to protect myself so that I could be in space with people without absorbing them into me.
Jessica Osborn [00:27:09]:
Yes.
Amy Kemp [00:27:10]:
But I didn't know that's what I was doing. I didn't, I didn't have any language for that until I saw the results of the assessment and realized, like, oh, this is a problem, you know?
Jessica Osborn [00:27:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, incredible. It's so interesting how sometimes you get a mirror put up and it might be hard to even acknowledge. Like, you said you knew it was true, but you didn't want to accept it. It's like sometimes the truth is really hard to accept, especially when, you know it's just sort of thrown up there and you think like, oh my goodness, that is so true.
Amy Kemp [00:27:45]:
But yeah, I have a hunch right now I'm working on. I don't know if it's true, but it's a hunch.
Jessica Osborn [00:27:50]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:27:52]:
We are created to live in community with other people because we can't really see ourselves. This is fun. I'm like just starting to chew on this thought a little bit. But, but all the time, and many times I think almost people will hire me just because I can tell them what their natural genius is. I can see them. I really see them. And then I can tell them and it resonates as true. But I don't know very many people who can articulate that about themselves.
Amy Kemp [00:28:31]:
Yeah, they, they. And here's part of the reason. This is actually in chapter two of my book. It's all about natural genius. But the thing that our natural genius feels so easy to us. We don't even know we're doing it. We don't recognize that not everyone can do that. And it feels so easy.
Amy Kemp [00:28:54]:
And so we're just Sort of like, well, that's not that big of a deal.
Jessica Osborn [00:28:58]:
Yeah, exactly. Right.
Amy Kemp [00:29:00]:
Yeah. Like, I always ask people, what's the thing you do that feels easy to you, but assessment astonishes everyone else?
Jessica Osborn [00:29:07]:
Yeah, right.
Amy Kemp [00:29:09]:
That's the thing right there. But like, okay, another example. I have a client who she is, we'll just say, like, she's a VP level. So she sits at, like, the table of leaders. And of course, she's one of the only women. Her leader. Leader is very charismatic, and he's very much, like, always with the microphone and whatever. She did not categorize herself as a leader or as a strong leader because that's not what she is.
Amy Kemp [00:29:48]:
Like, she's not the microphone in hand. She can, but it's not her natural genius. Right. But what we recognize and what I saw after just getting to know her is that what she was constantly doing was building bridges on the team. She was constantly reading the room and seeing, like, that person is not happy about that decision, and then would go say, like, well, what's going on? Why are you responding that way? And she was constantly, like, creating these pathways that were making the team function really effectively. But she didn't know she was doing that, and she didn't see it as having great value.
Jessica Osborn [00:30:25]:
Yeah, yeah, right. It's just her instincts. Right. So, yeah, she was like, well, that's.
Amy Kemp [00:30:30]:
Just what I do. And she didn't characterize that as leadership. I was like, well, I have a few thoughts about that. I. I mean, I feel like that form of leadership is lacking, and we need more cultivation of it, particularly in our world right now. And a lot of those leaders are women.
Jessica Osborn [00:30:53]:
Yes. Yeah. And it's just a different style. Right. Like, it's not necessarily what they have seen or experienced before, but, yeah, still. Yeah, absolutely. Leadership. Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:31:05]:
Plus, I was like, well, you're a vp. Like, how do you think you got there, like, if you're not a leader? You know? But it's funny, really, like, didn't characterize herself that way. Like, she didn't see herself until I told her. Like, I kept saying that to her and then saying, do more of that, like, and recognize its value. And don't you dare get underpaid, you know, because what you're bringing is exceptionally valuable. So.
Jessica Osborn [00:31:35]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so true. No, I was nodding along while you're speaking because, you know, one of the things I very similarly help my clients to do, you know, they. They always really talented. They've got so many things and that they just can't see what I call the expert zone. And it's like the same thing. It's like it's right under your nose. It's what you do.
Jessica Osborn [00:31:55]:
And you think it's just normal because you do it and it's been easy for you. And, you know, it's exactly as you were saying. Like, it is. Yeah. The most amazing thing. And then they're like, ah. Once they realize it, it's like you feel it. Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:32:10]:
You actually just do the truth of like, oh, my goodness, that is it. And now everything seems so easy.
Amy Kemp [00:32:16]:
Yeah. The other thing, women almost always undercharge for it.
Jessica Osborn [00:32:22]:
Yes. Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:32:24]:
We do not understand the value of it because it feels so easy. And we feel like we shouldn't get paid a lot for something that feels so easy to us.
Jessica Osborn [00:32:34]:
Yes.
Amy Kemp [00:32:35]:
So one of mine is, I'm really great at facilitating conversations in small groups. And I can trace it back to, like, very young age. I had a club in our neighborhood, and everyone had to put a piece of chewed gum on the tree to get in. And I would facilitate conversations with these friends of mine about how we could make our neighborhood a better place, which I think is just delightful. But whatever. I remember talking about that. Right?
Jessica Osborn [00:33:04]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:33:05]:
And so from a very young age, I was not talking, I was asking questions. And then I was, well, what do you think about that? And what do you think about that? And do you think that's true? And, you know, I was like, facilitating, and I. If I trace back through my whole professional career, that's how I developed people. I facilitated conversations in small groups. I didn't know it was really valuable. I. I just did it. I do it.
Jessica Osborn [00:33:30]:
If I'm out to eat with you.
Amy Kemp [00:33:31]:
I do it, like, all the time. Right. And so what I learned and what I have learned in these last eight years of this particular stretch era of my business is that that's exceptionally rare and it's very valuable, and people will pay for it, and they should, because they're. Because it's rare and there is value in all rarity. Therefore, it's valuable. Right?
Jessica Osborn [00:33:56]:
Yes.
Amy Kemp [00:33:58]:
So, yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:33:59]:
Yeah. And it's. Yeah. Like you say, I mean, you can see straight away how you are just thinking that's just normal.
Amy Kemp [00:34:06]:
I had no idea.
Jessica Osborn [00:34:07]:
Yeah. You have no idea. Yeah. Do you think everybody. So the question I want to ask is, do we all have thought habits that you think we should be discovering and finding out about? Do people have like, oh, are there some people who are like, you're fine, don't worry about it. You know, your thought habits are all good. Like, what do you think about that? Because I know I'm being very absolute in that. Is it all.
Amy Kemp [00:34:38]:
There are people who have great clarity of thought. So when I look at the assessment, like, I will go through it with prospective clients. A lot of times people will think, oh, if it's very clear, they don't need to work with a coach. What I think when I see that is like, oh, I cannot wait. Because that what can happen is that we can create without resistance. So we're, we are creators, right? Like, as human beings, we were created to create and to like, let creation happen through us. What happens in our brains is that these habits of thinking create resistance to that process, to the millimeter steps of creation, and they get in our way more than anything in that process, more than any external circumstance. What's slowing you down is these.
Amy Kemp [00:35:37]:
It's this underneath the surface stuff that it's like you, you know, you're invisible.
Jessica Osborn [00:35:44]:
Thing holding you back and you're like.
Amy Kemp [00:35:46]:
Yeah, I'll kind of describe it too.
Jessica Osborn [00:35:48]:
And I've got a foot on the brake at the same time.
Amy Kemp [00:35:50]:
Yes. Or it's like, I know I'm a Porsche. Like, I know I'm a super fast sports car.
Jessica Osborn [00:35:56]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:35:56]:
I have this exquisite gifting and capacity, but there's gunk in my fuel. And so when I know my capacity, but when I hit the gas, I don't go, yeah. But I definitely see that people who have more clarity at times have a harder time with the areas where they do have risk because it's like they're so used to having clarity. So then this is like, like they can't even tolerate it. I mean, they're just so uncomfortable with it. And it really holds them up even more sometimes than people who have a lot of noise happening in their head and a lot of resistance. So, yeah, the other thing that can happen is like, this is a fluid assessment. It's not a personality test.
Amy Kemp [00:36:42]:
It's not a strengths. It's not who you are in any way. Our thoughts are always changing. But I've seen a lot of clients where we work together, they get a promotion or their business grows to the next level. Right. And then all of a sudden all of these habits of thinking show up that weren't there before.
Jessica Osborn [00:37:05]:
Oh, wow.
Amy Kemp [00:37:05]:
It's like, it's like you're playing in the minor leagues and then you go up to the major leagues and all of a sudden these habits of like, you know, how you hold the bat or whatever. Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:37:15]:
You.
Amy Kemp [00:37:15]:
You can't do that there. You know, like, it's. It's going to be a problem at that higher level.
Jessica Osborn [00:37:21]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:37:21]:
So a lot of times, like, then they'll come back and say, like, whoa, like, this is very different. And so we dig in again and see what's showing up that maybe didn't need to show up in the other role or at the size of their business when it was smaller.
Jessica Osborn [00:37:37]:
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I think the noise. Layers, right? You kind of go through some layers, and then, oh, look, here is something new, or here it is again, just at a different level. I'm like, oh, my goodness. I thought that we'd worked on this, and then it shows up again.
Amy Kemp [00:37:55]:
But, yeah, I think that's common, too, like, in changing thought habits. Sometimes people will say, and I've even said to coaches I've worked with, I'm tired of talking about this. You must be tired of hearing me talk about it. Like, it's the same thing. But if you imagine, I think of it like a kind of like a mountain where at you. At the beginning, you run into it over and over because you're just taking a little tiny circle, but you start to go down the mountain, you run into it fewer and fewer times, and it takes longer. Like, it might. For example, the story I told you about my book, that was the first time that had happened in, like, a year.
Amy Kemp [00:38:35]:
Well, it used to happen every day, right. But now it's like, oh, there it is. Oh, I got it. Okay. Now I can move forward past it. Right. But it just shows up less and less as that groove doesn't get traveled as much in your brain. It's still there, but you.
Amy Kemp [00:38:52]:
You can quickly catch it or make a pivot faster. So.
Jessica Osborn [00:38:57]:
Yeah, yeah, totally get it. No, I love that. And I think, you know, you said before about how you think we're designed to live in communities because it's hard to see yourself and other people are almost like the mirror, right. That. That you need. And. And I think it's so interesting because I've lived. I lived half my life or probably more than half, not even thinking any of these things or knowing anything about it.
Jessica Osborn [00:39:21]:
And then once you start to realize. Someone said to me one day, your children are the biggest mirror you could ever have. And I started going, oh, my goodness. Because, you know, that is a true statement. The shock that that happens. And then all the little things that they're like, why are they doing that? That's annoying. And then I'm like, okay, they're a mirror. You turn it and look at yourself and you're like, oh, my goodness, now I can see where that comes from.
Jessica Osborn [00:39:48]:
And it, I mean, it changes everything, right? Because you become so much more compassionate, so much more. I don't know what the word is, but I think, like, I can't even explain how much you grow as a person once you start.
Amy Kemp [00:40:03]:
Less judgmental too, right?
Jessica Osborn [00:40:05]:
Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
Amy Kemp [00:40:07]:
Never parent. Never judging any parent. Like. Right. I'm never judging you ever, ever, ever. Especially after my third child. Yeah. Like, I'm never, ever, ever.
Amy Kemp [00:40:19]:
Yeah, this. We had our first two children and they were, I would say, fairly easy. And I remember saying to my husband, I mean, people have locks on their cabinets. Are they not parenting? Right. And then we had our third son. We had locks on everything. Like, we had locks on locks on locks. And like we were, I mean, oh.
Amy Kemp [00:40:52]:
And I thought, why did I say that out loud? But I will never. I just think you're doing the best you can.
Jessica Osborn [00:41:01]:
Like, yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:41:02]:
All of the parents, all of the people. The other thing that reveals all of the subconscious habits of thinking that are holding you back is moving into entrepreneurship.
Jessica Osborn [00:41:15]:
Yes.
Amy Kemp [00:41:16]:
I mean, it is. I've seen it take people out. Like moving, especially moving from a traditional job to an entrepreneurial space. It is not for the faint of heart. You get to experience, like, I describe it like a beach ball was being held underwater and it just whoosh. Comes up to the surface and you get to really encounter a lot of the noise that has been there, but you didn't have to encounter it in your other role.
Jessica Osborn [00:41:46]:
Yeah, it's so true. I think, you know, you really learn the way of the world and, you know, we're. We're almost nurtured to come up and be an employee and work in that space. And it totally happens organically. I totally agree. Like, I. Because I didn't start my. Well, actually, no.
Jessica Osborn [00:42:02]:
Started my first business while I was still working and. But, you know, it had been 20 years before I decided I'm going to do this full time. And I quit the corporate job. So I'd been in that environment working for 20 years and there's been times since then I've gone. I just feel like a child, like in this, an entrepreneurial space. Like, you know, it's one of my inner critics thoughts. But, you know, it's. This is why.
Jessica Osborn [00:42:29]:
Right. Because it's throwing up all of these things. I didn't know anything about myself and it's almost like I feel so new and I know that I'm not new as in I've been around and I've got all this experience and expertise and what I'm doing, it's stuff I've done my whole corporate career. So that it's not new. But then it's this feeling of like wow, I, I feel so new as in this is a whole new part to me. I didn't even realize were there. There's just the whole experience of it and I, I don't know if you can think. I'm trying to think of something specific because I know, I'm just talking.
Amy Kemp [00:43:05]:
Well, it's like you were an expert. So I, it's like novice to expert. Right. You became an expert in this space over here.
Jessica Osborn [00:43:12]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:43:13]:
Then you move to this new space and you're a total novice. You're just starting out. Right. And then you, you, you do bring with you some of the things like you still have your skills and your experiences but, but you've got to now learn again to become an expert. And that's, that's really jarring. Especially if your habits of thinking around your self worth are attached to your performance, to what you do, to your identity and as a professional person. Yeah, very jarring.
Jessica Osborn [00:43:44]:
It's kind of like you've, you've moved to a whole nother planet and now you've got to figure out how life works on this planet. And so you were great on the planet that you were on and everything was fine, knew how it worked and you, you know, I, I got up to the top of my profession and then I've gone to a new planet and I'm like, oh my goodness. Okay. So everything I thought I knew like I did marketing and business. So it's not like it's that unusual to start a business. I'm like, I'm, I'm going to be good. I've got all this knowledge and I understand it and well it isn't. You're on a different planet and the rules that applied in the other planet don't apply on this planet.
Jessica Osborn [00:44:20]:
It's sort of like to explain it. So true. Yeah. Never learn more about yourself. Are there any signs that you would say signal to someone, hey you, you probably need to figure out what's actually going on. Like are there signs that you're someone that needs a habit identification, like a bit of that, you know what, what? Apart from your intuition. It's like something's just not right or why is it should be. Is there anything.
Amy Kemp [00:44:55]:
Sometimes it's like my business has gotten to this threshold, and then it's just plateaued. You know, there's. I'm not able to. Sometimes it's. I can't work any more hours, but I want a better outcome. I want more income or impact or influence. But as far as hours go, like, I'm tapped out. I.
Amy Kemp [00:45:19]:
I can't give anymore. Right. Sometimes it's that move from. From like a producer to a leader. There's like a jump there where you experience a lot of discomfort. It's also interesting that a lot of times people will hire me to help them with their business, and then we discover that what's really the problem isn't their business. There are other things happening in their life. It can be a difficult relationship.
Amy Kemp [00:45:54]:
It can be problems with kids and boundaries there. You know, there are things that are happening there also. But I think what the. The unifying characteristic is, is that I know what I want and I can't get there. You know, I can't get it. I don't know what I'm missing. Am I missing a skill? Am I missing. You know, and I've tried everything.
Amy Kemp [00:46:19]:
And all of my old mechanisms that moved me up to this point aren't working anymore. Because this work, what it feels like when you're going through it is your brain is screaming danger. You know, particularly for entrepreneurs, when I say, okay, now we're gonna work less and you're going to earn more.
Jessica Osborn [00:46:39]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:46:39]:
They're just like, what? You know, and so it's almost like you're riding your bike and you're pedaling and pedaling and pedaling and you can't pedal any faster. Faster. That if you just shift the gear and you go. You shift the gear down and you do some digging. Right. You'll travel further with less energy. Energy exertion.
Jessica Osborn [00:47:01]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:47:01]:
You'll be able to enjoy it more. But when you first do that, everything in you is going to say, I can't slow down, and my feet are going so fast, I'll fall over. You know, like everything in you is going to scream danger to that option. It's just. It's contrary to how you have wired yourself to survive.
Jessica Osborn [00:47:21]:
Yeah, yeah, I totally get that. That's so, so important because, you know, you said they hire you to work on the business, but it's often something that's not in the business. And it's like, well, when you're running a business, there's a real merging. Like, it's not like you go, oh, okay, I'm going home now from the job. And I go, Home. And I've got, you know, I used to have two separate lives. It's like work life and home life. And I didn't like to blend the two very much.
Jessica Osborn [00:47:47]:
But when you have your own business. No, your life is not just work. And I'm very, very clear on, you know, I started business so that I would have more life and less work. But it sort of blends because you're still you, you know, and. And the business. You are so much the. The blood and the lifeblood and the heart of the business that it doesn't. It's still with you even when you know.
Jessica Osborn [00:48:12]:
So it's in your life. And the things that are happening, like you say it's like, well, actually there's stuff happening that's outside of the business that isn't having an impact on it because the separation just isn't there. Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:48:24]:
We have a new planet, right? Yeah. We have a relationship with it. Like, it's a relationship with our business, just like we do with people. And so boundaries are needed for that relationship to be healthy. But the boundaries aren't rigid. And when you're an entrepreneur, it's not so simple. Like you said of just, I'm going home and I don't have to care about any of this.
Jessica Osborn [00:48:45]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:48:46]:
I don't. I legitimately don't care if whatever happens. But when it is your business, it's a it. There is a different level of connection to it. So. Yeah, businesses are hungry, though. I mean, they will eat up as much of you as you let them.
Jessica Osborn [00:49:05]:
Yes.
Amy Kemp [00:49:06]:
We talk a lot about setting goals with boundaries. Like, meaning mine is, as an example, I want to work like a teacher. So I want to work Monday through Friday from like 8 to 3, and then weekends off. And I want summers to be lighter and I want breaks when my kids have breaks. Right. Yeah. So I. To work like a teacher and I want to get paid like a CEO.
Amy Kemp [00:49:32]:
So if all the goal was, was to get paid like a CEO, then there's no boundaries. Like, then I can just do whatever, whenever, Right. There's absolutely no. It's just a yes to everything. So I've got to have the boundary included to protect myself from myself. Because I love to work. I love it. And so I'll just.
Jessica Osborn [00:49:55]:
It'll just. Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:49:56]:
Go over. Right?
Jessica Osborn [00:49:57]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:49:58]:
Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:49:58]:
And like you said, it's like the. Yes. Like, you're like, well, you. There's so many things you could say yes to. But if it's going to then be in conflict with you having working like A teacher, then that's where you make that decision. Right. Well, is this worthwhile doing or not? Totally.
Amy Kemp [00:50:13]:
I, I had a. I tell the story in the book. There was a woman I talked to, she was my ideal client. And we got done with the conversation and, and she said, I don't even need to talk to my husband. Like, this is a yes. And then she said, I said, well, let's schedule your first call. And she said, great, I only can talk after 6pm, like during the week. And I was like, oh gosh, I'm gonna need to think about this.
Amy Kemp [00:50:43]:
So I just gave myself the night, but I had to call her back and just say, I can't. Like, if I do that, then it's just I will, I will resent my business. Because that's, that's how you know you're missing a boundary in your life in any way is the feeling of resentment.
Jessica Osborn [00:51:03]:
Yeah.
Amy Kemp [00:51:04]:
I said, yeah, it's a dirty yes. Right. I don't want to do it, but I'm saying yes. But then when I have that call, I just feel yuck about it. Yeah. But I had to walk away from. That's a lot of money. That's a great person that I really cared about.
Amy Kemp [00:51:21]:
And I had to just like say, it's not gonna work. That's where the, the rubber meets the road. On the boundaries.
Jessica Osborn [00:51:27]:
Yeah. No, but it's so important. I'm like, I resonate with that so much. I did the same thing the first couple of years of my coaching business. I was, you know, at the time because I had a young, you know, brand new newborn and so I was up at all sorts of crazy hours. So I kind of then allowed that to happen with my clients. I'd be like, yeah, I can do, you know, a 6, 6am call with someone in the UK or I was doing evening calls and then a couple of years and I went, no, I'm changing this because I actually just want to have, I need my time and, you know, I need to just chill in the evenings. And I, and so I set the boundary and it just meant well.
Jessica Osborn [00:52:04]:
Okay. So I'm, you know, not going to be the ideal coach for anyone in the uk because our, our time zones just do not work unless one of us is really over compromising. And if they want to, that's fine. That's up to them. But you know, I'm, I'm definitely setting that boundary for myself. And you know, there's been that. Which then you think, well, some people go, well, there's all that opportunity, and I'm like, yeah, I know, but at what expense? You know?
Amy Kemp [00:52:30]:
Yeah, yeah. And the bigger question is, what do you want to create? Like, I want to create a thriving business, but I also want to create the fullness of my life. And I have. I don't. As a woman, I don't have the luxury of just being absent from, like, what's happening in my house. Right. I have three kids and I've got a husband and I've got. There are a lot of things that I do that I want to do.
Amy Kemp [00:52:56]:
So I'm creating there as well. Not only in my business, I'm creating all of it. Yeah. The experience of it, too.
Jessica Osborn [00:53:05]:
Yes. Yeah. I think that's so true. And to me, it's like, it's the life first. Like, that's where I started. What is. What do I want my life to look like? And then what does the business that supports that life look like? So what. How will I build it or structure it so that it gives me that life? And that's 100.
Amy Kemp [00:53:21]:
The way that.
Jessica Osborn [00:53:22]:
That I approach things, too. I love that.
Amy Kemp [00:53:24]:
Super cool.
Jessica Osborn [00:53:25]:
Yeah. Amy, this has been such a cool conversation. I know that you've got so much. Your book, I can see that behind you. It's called. Is it I see you? Is that your.
Amy Kemp [00:53:35]:
Yes, it's called I see you. And it is a guide for women to make more, have more, and be more without more work. So the core message of the book is that you can't outwork your thought habits.
Jessica Osborn [00:53:50]:
Okay. Love it.
Amy Kemp [00:53:51]:
Because if you could, you already would have. Yeah. Because I'm sure that the people listening are not lacking in work ethic. It's not working harder that is going to get you what you want more at a certain point. Now, I will also do, like, the caveat where if you're just starting out, there is kind of some work. Yeah, you gotta do some work.
Jessica Osborn [00:54:14]:
Right.
Amy Kemp [00:54:15]:
But this is for the person who has gotten to a point and then it's like, I can't get past this point and I can't figure out why. Right, yeah. That's who the book is for.
Jessica Osborn [00:54:27]:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think there is that. You know, you always have to do something, but, you know, you've already spoken about it. It's like, you don't have to keep going at that crazy pace or with those hours, because. Yeah, it's just going to end up with a downfall, isn't it?
Amy Kemp [00:54:45]:
Like an airplane where it takes a lot of fuel to get it off the ground. But if you keep burning that amount of fuel, you're going to crash and burn. Yeah, Right. You will burn out the engines if once you get to cruising altitude. Yeah, it's a really good, like, visual of that.
Jessica Osborn [00:55:01]:
Very good analogy. I love that. Well, I'll link up the book in the show notes. And also you. You mentioned your assessment tool that's on your website, which is so exciting. I'm definitely going to go hop over there and, and have a little play with that myself. That will be in the show notes too, so please make use of those. Amy has just shared so much.
Jessica Osborn [00:55:22]:
If you've resonated, you're obviously with us still after all this time, you must be loving our conversation. So I'm sure that you're going to love her book and to learn more from her. Where, where do you hang out, Amy? Where can people find you online?
Amy Kemp [00:55:35]:
I love Instagram, so you can find me at Amy Kemp Inc. On Instagram and also LinkedIn, just under Amy Kemp. You can find me there as well. So, and then my website, of course, is amy kemp.com. so pretty simple. Just my name.
Jessica Osborn [00:55:51]:
Yeah, brilliant. I love it. And easy to spell as well, so that is wonderful. Thank you so much, Amy. This has been an absolute pleasure. We definitely have to stay connected and hopefully chat again soon.
Amy Kemp [00:56:04]:
I love that. Thanks so much for having me.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:06]:
Thank you.
