Jessica Osborn [00:00:05]:
Do you commonly feel awkward or nervous about selling and just wish that you never had to have a sales call ever again? Well, if that's you, then today's episode is going to be one that you'll probably want to listen to multiple times. It is full of the most simple yet practical and really realistic sales sales tips that you can use starting today in your business to feel far more at ease, show the real confidence in your product and in what it is that you're offering and help you have a much better time, more successful time at selling. So stay tuned, it's coming right up now. Joining me today on the podcast to share with you about these really simple, practical sales strategies is Andy Hart who is a sales strategist herself. She's a very energetic entrepreneur mentor and she hosts a podcast called she Sells Differently. Andy was working as a sales executive for a Fortune 500 company that she said she had 17 years experience in that before she started her passion project, Heart Design Co, which is a candle making business that she began in her bedroom. What started as a side hustle blossomed into a wildly successful wholesale business within a year and then she was able to transition from that corporate career to full time entrepreneurship, which is just incredible. And she now coaches other entrepreneurs on sales and selling because she has so much experience and expertise to share both in services and in products.
Jessica Osborn [00:01:46]:
So Andy and I have a wonderful chat. She shares some really great stories, some tips, just some, you would think, almost obvious things that are just not obvious that most people are not doing that is harming your sales results. The experience making you feel awkward and nervous around selling. So by the end of this episode you should be feeling far more confident in your ability to sell naturally, authentically, with integrity, really feel good about selling and I do encourage you to listen all the way to the end because she has some really cool tools that you can use and implement to help you as well. So it's not just about selling verbally or in front of people. These tips are going to help you in your sales copy and also some tools that you can use for your website. So so much value in this. Andy is an incredible guest, really fun person.
Jessica Osborn [00:02:43]:
I know you're going to love it as much as I did, so. So let's press play on this interview. I'm here with Andy Hart. Andy, welcome to Choose a Business Podcast.
Andy Hart [00:02:56]:
Thanks so much for having me, Jessica. I'm excited to be here.
Jessica Osborn [00:02:59]:
Yeah, me too. And just so that everyone can get to know you a little bit, would you share with us a bit about what you do and who you serve in your business.
Andy Hart [00:03:09]:
Yes, yes. So I am a sales strategist. I often joke that if you had told me even back in college and university that I would be in sales, much less coaching sales, that I would have laughed. But here I am. I love it. I could talk about it all day long. And so I got a job in technology sales when I was a senior in college and I ended up working my way up the corporate ladder. And I was in technology sales for over 17 years.
Andy Hart [00:03:45]:
And during the pandemic I started a candle company as a lot of people probably did. They wanted some type of side hustle to keep them busy while they were quarantining at home. And so I kind of joked that it was my after work therapy. But I started a candle company, Heart Design Co. And started wholesaling my products. Had a goal to be in four retailers by the end of 20, 20, 22 and Jessica, within three months I was in 120.
Jessica Osborn [00:04:17]:
Wow.
Andy Hart [00:04:19]:
I think I, I say that to people and they're like, that's amazing. And it was, but it was also completely overwhelming. And so that just set a course to where I am now, having left my corporate job a year and a half ago. And I have my candle company and I also coach product businesses on how to sell, how to get their products on retailer shelves, how to sell their products from a place of integrity, how to overcome that anxiety of selling. And I love what I do. It's kind of taken my passion of, you know, creating beautiful products and then what I learned in corporate and combining them.
Jessica Osborn [00:05:00]:
Yeah, that's amazing. What did you do in corporate? Was it product sales or service based sales? What sort of selling were you doing?
Andy Hart [00:05:08]:
Yeah, actually both. So working for a technology company, I worked for two of the big OEM manufacturers. So I sold actually, you know, technology equipment, but then I also sold the services and the concepts, the solutions around the actual hardware as well. So I got such a great experience of selling products and selling services and solutions and such a good foundation of not only selling but leadership skills as well. And I'm so thankful for that time in corporate America. But I think deep down I always knew I want to work for my own dream thing.
Jessica Osborn [00:05:53]:
Yeah, yeah, I think you do have that.
Andy Hart [00:05:57]:
Quite a lot of your listeners are thinking, oh, I have that feeling too, I think, you know, and so it was just that Tug never went away.
Jessica Osborn [00:06:05]:
Yeah. So I'm just curious, how did you end up in sales? Like what was your background before that? What did you, you know, you mentioned that if you'd asked you as a really, your younger self, you would never have imagined that you'd end up there. What. What do you describe your. Yourself as before you got into that, you know.
Andy Hart [00:06:26]:
Yeah. Well, this is kind of another funny. I think. Yeah, the Lord just has a funny way of. Like you. You have all these plans, and your Lord just was like, nope, that's not what's going to happen. I'm just going to give you all these other, you know. So I grew up dancing.
Andy Hart [00:06:41]:
I was. I did 15 years of competitive dance growing up, and then I taught dance in college. So I had a plan to start a dance studio. So I think this is where my creative nature has always come out. And. And so I was ready. I had a business plan. I was ready to go to the bank and, like, move forward with this.
Andy Hart [00:07:05]:
And so my senior year of college, I was a part of American Marketing association, and I had a professor. We were on a trip to Nashville, Tennessee, as a part of that organization, and we toured Dell Technologies, which probably a lot of people are familiar with because it's a global organization. Yeah, they were hiring at the time, and my professor made me interview. So they. They were like, hey, here's a bunch of university students touring our campus. We're hiring. We don't even care that you guys don't have resumes. Like, come interview.
Jessica Osborn [00:07:39]:
Yeah.
Andy Hart [00:07:41]:
So my professor made me interview, and I was like, I don't want to do this. I don't want to be in technology sales. And she looked at me and she said, andy, you're going to interview and you're going to thank me later. And what's funny, Jessica, is I mentioned this before we started recording, but I just moved back to Arkansas, moved back to the town, the university town that I went to school in, and I had that same professor over for dessert right when I first moved back. And we were laughing about that, and I was like, thank you.
Jessica Osborn [00:08:13]:
Oh, wow.
Andy Hart [00:08:17]:
But, yeah, it wasn't until literally a month before I started that job that I interviewed, got that offer and just prayed about it. And I was like, I think this would be a really good experience for a year or two. Then I'll go start my dance studio. And, you know, it ended up being, you know, 17 years in corporate America, and now, you know, here I am as a sales coach. So. Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:08:43]:
Wow, that's incredible. And what a sliding doors moment. Right? Because.
Andy Hart [00:08:49]:
Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:08:50]:
So easily. Not interviewed and not done that, and who knows where the led from there. I was just curious because, you Know, when we think about sales and selling, and I'm sure, you know, everybody listening would agree unless you are in sales. But for most of us, it feels like this thing that it's so different to who we are and it does feel hard. I will say the word hard and, and strange and, and like you have to kind of become someone that's not yourself sort of say to that because, you know, as somebody who you had a very kind of creative and different life and then to come into something where you were, okay, now you're going to sell. How. How did you adapt and adopt into that selling role and, and make it obviously very successful for yourself?
Andy Hart [00:09:45]:
Yeah, I think there's a, there's a lot, there's a lot of answers to that question. But I will start with one of the biggest mindset shifts that I believe you have to have to be a good seller. And I will say this. Anyone can be good at sales. This is not something that I feel like comes naturally for anyone. It certainly did not for me. I had to learn it and I had to be persistent with. I certainly had my times where I completely flopped and embarrassed myself, but I just picked myself back up and move forward and learn from it.
Andy Hart [00:10:20]:
But what I will say is that when you have a, first and foremost, you have to have a product or service or a product offering that you believe in to be able to sell from a place of integrity. Because if you don't believe in it, that's where you, you cannot sell well or, you know, believe in what you sell. Right? Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:10:43]:
Yeah.
Andy Hart [00:10:44]:
That's where we're, we're out of alignment with what we're selling. But second, when you have a product offering and you know that it brings value to someone, and I tell my clients this all the time, whatever that is, it could be a beautiful candle that you create. It could be a coaching service, it could be a course fill in the blank. But you know that it is. Has a transformation value or it brings joy to someone, but it brings value, then what I say is you owe it, you actually owe it to the world to talk about it. Now the difference there is that you find some people that continue and continue and continue and they don't take those emotional and social cues that when not everyone is your customer. Right. And there are going to be some people that are not interested.
Andy Hart [00:11:41]:
And what society often tells us are these common sales trainings that you hear and I've through them is that you have to overcome every objection. Right. I don't truly believe that because I Don't believe everyone is your customer and not everyone is your customer right now. And sometimes the most gracious thing you can do is to let a customer walk away and let them realize when it is is their time to be your customer. But that being said, you owe it to share about your product.
Jessica Osborn [00:12:13]:
Yeah.
Andy Hart [00:12:14]:
And when you get good at sharing about your product and sharing about the transformation and the value that it brings, people will naturally see the passion and the joy and the transformation that it has. Right?
Jessica Osborn [00:12:27]:
Yeah. That is two excellent points. I, you know, that just to reiterate, believing in the product, believing in it actually fully, wholeheartedly, like you love it so much that this person would be nuts or insane not to love it as much as you. You know, like that kind of energy that actually I think is subconsciously working when you're in that discussion or when you, you know, whether it's face to face or maybe it's even the copy that you put on your sales page or whatever, like, but when it's coming with that sort of energy that's totally different from oh, but here's something I've got and like here are all the things in it and I really hope that you like it and I hope that it's enough and I hope that it's the right price. That's a totally different energetic signature that you have on it. Versus like this is the business, like this is the thing that is going to be transformational for you. And when you have that level of belief, it just comes across totally differently, doesn't it?
Andy Hart [00:13:26]:
Like, absolutely, absolutely. And I think about how many times I have experienced this on, at different levels. Whether it's someone like I'm encountering online or even shopping in person and they're not confident about what they're offering, but maybe even I see the value and what they're offering and I actually want to buy from them. They don't actually make the offer to me to allow me to purchase. I'll give you like a prime example and this is just a small everyday example any of us could, could come across. My sister in law and I went to a landscape company, we wanted to buy some house plants and they did such a great job educating us on all of these beautiful house plants. Okay, well you have east facing windows. You should get the, like these are beautiful house plants, you know, providing such high value, high value content to us in person.
Andy Hart [00:14:22]:
Right. But had we never been offered a checkout counter or like led to the checkout counter, like we would have missed out. We were ready to purchase. Right. And I think that is so often what we encounter when we're selling our products online or our services. We provide such high value and we get people so excited for, but we're so afraid of being salesy and being that person that we never actually make the offer. And people are like, wait a minute, like, I want what you have to offer. And then we actually do a disservice to people.
Andy Hart [00:15:02]:
Yeah, we love, you know, and so I tell my clients all the time, I'm like, don't be that. That person either. They can walk away. They can unsubscribe.
Jessica Osborn [00:15:14]:
Yeah. Like, showing where to buy isn't like being pushy. It's just saying, here's where you buy. Like, you. You're not able to make someone do anything. And I think that that's maybe. Do you. Do you agree that some people, at times, you know, where we've maybe grown up in an environment or we've been exposed to certain sales environments as a customer where you have felt pressured.
Jessica Osborn [00:15:37]:
And I think usually this happens when, you know, the old cliche of used car sales. Some department stores definitely, like, I can think of, you know, you go into a white goods type store and they're like, on you, and they're like, trying to show you, you know, whatever it is. And you're like, I just need to look around and I'm not really keen to buy yet. You know, you get exposed to that and then you think, well, that's what selling is. And. And there's this push. But showing somebody, like you said, just showing them, hey, here's where you buy, or here's where you check out, or here's the next step. Just making it obvious, not hiding it.
Jessica Osborn [00:16:11]:
You know, gosh, I've seen some as well where I've had a client whose sales page, like, the link to buy was a link hidden in body copy. And I'm like, okay, the link is there, but you are making them work really hard to find it. And they could miss that really easily. We need to, you know, it's okay to have a big button or to, you know, and actually not more. Not just, okay, it's like, you must have a big button. You need to tell people if they're quick and they're out of time, why slow them down? Make them go searching for like, okay, I want this. Like you're saying, but where do I go and how do I sign up? Where do I get it? You're losing sales by doing that.
Andy Hart [00:16:51]:
Well, and no matter what you're Selling. Make doing business easy. Make doing business with you easy. Don't make it more difficult. And to your point, the experience that so often we have had in the past, whether it's with pushy salespeople, it's, there's, there's two things that usually happens in those scenarios. And this is what, why we have come to have this icky feeling with sales. And I always describe it as, you know, one, we have had that pushy sales person. And I want you to think back to the last time that you have felt pressured to buy something and maybe even you ended up buying it and you had post purchase regret or you just felt icky about it afterwards, whether you had regret or not.
Andy Hart [00:17:44]:
But probably you felt pressured. And the reason you felt pressured is because that salesperson did not stop to ask questions and listen to, to what mattered to you. And so that's the first thing. The second thing is, and this is probably the biggest, is that so often what we're sold, the expectations don't meet the reality. And that is the hardest thing because whether you know it, we joke with the car, right? The used car, and we're sold. Hey, it's, it's this great condition car. And you know, it had, we get 30 miles to the gallon, it just had a new oil change, blah, blah, blah. And then we get it and it gets 15 miles to the gallon and the engine goes out and it's a lemon.
Andy Hart [00:18:41]:
So the expectations of what we were sold in a high pressure scenario and the reality are so disconnected. And when that happens, that is like the number one like scenario for incredible frustration and customer satisfaction issues. And so if you can as a salesperson when you're. Because we're selling every day. But if you can pause and really take the time to ask your potential customer what really matters to them and get to the heart of what they're trying to accomplish or what they're trying to solve and make sure that they feel heard and ensure that your product is going to meet their expectations. And guess what? If it's not, then you walk away. You walk away as a salesperson. That is the hardest thing to do.
Jessica Osborn [00:19:43]:
Yeah.
Andy Hart [00:19:43]:
But a good, a good salesperson is always so confident in their product that they're not afraid to walk away if they can't solve the customer's problem.
Jessica Osborn [00:19:51]:
Yeah. And I think this is actually really important. There's so many layers to what you just said. A few things. One was you're always selling. And I think that that is something. Listen in whether you think you're selling or not, you are always selling. If you have a business, you are so selling.
Jessica Osborn [00:20:08]:
And so you're either doing a great job of it or you're not doing a good job of it. And let's get into a place where you are doing a great job. And if you have a business, like we both do, where you're, you're selling your own expertise, I actually would have to say that's one of the hardest types of selling to do because, you know, it's great as a product that you've made. You know, obviously there's a lot of heart that goes into your product. And I didn't mean the pun there with your name, Andy.
Andy Hart [00:20:36]:
Go for it.
Jessica Osborn [00:20:39]:
You know, you've put a lot of heart and soul into a product that you created. But when you're actually selling your own expertise, I think it goes to like next level anxiety and all of the stuff that comes up. Because when you're selling, you're technically selling you, right? And so I think that that's where we get our knickers in a twist. You know, so much when we're in this situation and really pull back from it and, and probably feel even more nervous about it because it does feel so very personal. But you mentioned just before something that I think would be interesting to dive a little bit deeper into because he said people talk about, you know, getting rid of everyone's objections. And I've had this discussion with quite a few clients over time because they're like, oh, but you know, they're saying no. That means no. And I'm like, yes.
Jessica Osborn [00:21:27]:
But there is a distinction to make here that I think is really important. And that's where, first of all, it's understanding whether this person is your ideal client or not. And knowing that means that you've gone far, far, far deeper below the sur level. Okay. It's not like, well, they're a woman at the right age and they've got blah, blah, you know, it's like, no, no, no, like right down into, you know, the problem that they're in, how they're seeing it, what's really the right solution for them? You know, is there an absolute fit and, and listening for the difference between this is a no for me because it's not a right fit to this is the right fit for me. But I'm really nervous about saying yes. And so that, that distinction there and like, the objections of like, it's a yes, but there's a part of me saying no and like, and it's Just a fear of saying yes. Those are the objections that you really want to be addressing is what I always say.
Jessica Osborn [00:22:23]:
So tell me a little bit more about that. Do you have any tips for people on how to make the distinction between those types of objections and, you know, the ways that you then can address them? Because often they come down to money and you know, people saying I'm not ready. Readiness is probably the three categories and I think money is probably the hardest one for people to address because they feel like I'm telling someone to buy something, they're saying they don't have the money and like there's a whole raft of things that come up there. So I'll open that up to you. Like. Yeah. What do you think is.
Andy Hart [00:23:01]:
Well, I'll say this. Usually I have found that money is a cover for a deeper objection. Mm. It's the objection you hear most often. I actually just did a launch for my course and anytime I do a launch, I do a post launch survey for the people that didn't buy and I get so much good data from that. And one of the questions I ask is, you know, some form of why did didn't you buy? I, you know, I, I wrap it up nicer than that. Right. But.
Andy Hart [00:23:39]:
And generally about 60% of the responses are something to do with money. But in my experience it. That is always a root of a deeper objection. And I will say this. When you are selling one to many, meaning you're doing an online launch or you know, a webinar or workshop or a launch via email versus selling one to one, that is much harder to overcome objections than that is one on one. When you're one on one, you can ask questions. You can really get to the root of like for that one person.
Jessica Osborn [00:24:19]:
Yeah.
Andy Hart [00:24:20]:
And much quicker and much more personal. But when you're doing that one to many or you know, with a launch, then you really have to, to your point, know your aud and you have to think of every objection that they could come up with and create either, you know, email copy or marketing content or some type of sales objection, busting copy content to get them to turn that around. Right. And sometimes you don't get the chance in that scenario to overcome it because you have a big audience and you won't hear that. But what I would say is, and for probably a lot of your listeners, when you have an opportunity to collect data from your customers of why they're not purchasing that data is gold.
Jessica Osborn [00:25:20]:
Yeah.
Andy Hart [00:25:20]:
Especially when it's, you know, anonymous, that data is really gold. Because every time you launch a product, a service, a course, whatever that is, then you can refine your sales approach. And this is another piece of learning to be a better salesperson each time. You are constantly learning to just tweak your approach just a little bit. And so the next time where you know you may have closed 10 clients, the next time you may close 12 because you learned how to overcome that objection because you got such valuable feedback. So to kind of full circle to answer your question, learning how to differentiate and understand that feedback can come in a lot of different ways depending on how you're selling, whether it's one to one, one to many, or what that looks like. But always ask for feedback. And most times people are so willing to give it to you.
Andy Hart [00:26:17]:
Yeah, they're willing to help you out.
Jessica Osborn [00:26:19]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's actually the really good point that you mentioned just a second ago was, you know, it is harder with the one to many, but when you're doing those one to one calls, that is where you can take those insights and then say, well, if this person is feeling that, then likely other people are as well. So create that content around what the, what the person is saying on the one to one call and what you also mentioned, which I think it's just worth, you know, I like to kind of highlight the key points because like, let's not lose them. Ask the question. Like, I think that what happens, and I'm looking back to past me when I first started out in this business. You know, I came from a marketing background. I was used to writing all the copy. I wasn't used to sitting in front of someone having a conversation about, you know, buying.
Jessica Osborn [00:27:07]:
And so they would say to me, oh, I can't afford it, that's too much. And I go, okay, cool, see you later. And I just like get out of there quickly because I'm feeling super awkward and uncomfortable already. And I just, you know, I just wanted the conversation to end. So I just took it as a surface no, like they said no, that's no. And what I have learned over time is okay, get, just pause, sit in that place. I know it doesn't feel good, I know it feels uncomfortable, but it's not about you. This is about them.
Jessica Osborn [00:27:39]:
And if you are 99% sure, you know, maybe there's a little bit of doubt, but if you think I think this person is right, like it's felt really good up till now and then now they've just sort of thrown this like, ah, you know, freak out no. Or I can't afford it, or I don't have the money, whatever it is, at that point where you've mentioned the price, just allow them, like, sit with it with them for a moment and ask. You said ask the questions, Right? That's when you ask questions like, okay, great, so it's too much. What does that mean? Like, you know, and, and what else? Like, allow them to just sit with it and ask the questions. Because I think once you start asking questions there, you're now coming from a place of serving. It's not coercing because you're not making them. They, you can't get them like, literally get their credit card out and punch in the numbers, hold their hand. They will still decide.
Jessica Osborn [00:28:33]:
But you can allow that, you know, that initial response to have a little bit of space to actually dig a bit deeper. And as you said, it's usually the quick response that someone will say, but it's not usually the real reason. There's something beyond it and they're just saying that quick response. So the only way you're going to find it is asking questions.
Andy Hart [00:28:53]:
Yeah.
Jessica Osborn [00:28:53]:
Do you have any questions that you would ask? What are your favorite go to? How would you approach that situation?
Andy Hart [00:28:59]:
Well, you know, so let me, let me say this. I think that this is interesting because so many times when I will get that feedback and also, you know, start asking some of those questions. One of the things that I think is important and I struggle with this is I want to often talk about, like, features and like, oh, you get this and this, and, you know, no, I mean, like, that's like sales 101, like, you know, but talking about, like painting the picture of where they can be a year from now. And one of the things I've realized in my time of being an entrepreneur is that good entrepreneurs, they're good at investing. And so I think a lot of times you have to really paint the picture of investment and return on investment, especially when it's a pricing conversation. And so this is how I always get to the root of is this really about price or is this something else? And so I will usually always have a, a return on investment, you know, kind of objection, Buster, whatever, you know, talking point, I should say. And as I am kind of painting that picture of what their business can look like if they are still not on board, then I know it's not price. Yeah, I know it's not price.
Andy Hart [00:30:26]:
And so I think that's when you know that either they're just not serious about it, you know, when you're asking the questions and they're not really getting to the root, they're not serious or they're not ready, maybe they're not ready, they're not in the right mindset. But I think when you do a really good job of painting the transformation up front and the investment then, and the return that they get and then it's still a price then they may not have, you know, they may not just not be ready for what you have, you know?
Jessica Osborn [00:31:03]:
You know, you're so right. Usually the, the investment is so much less than the cost of not investing, the cost of staying where you are. It's like, well, in action every month that you're not doing this, you know, and how much longer can you really continue when you start to compare those costs or potentially, you know, maybe they're thinking, I should go and invest in something else. It's like, well, let's compare the two. You know, it usually comes down to being a no brainer. So you're so right. Like they're saying, no, I would be like, straight away, this person doesn't believe that they can do it. It's not that they don't think they should spend the money.
Jessica Osborn [00:31:42]:
The reason why they don't think they should spend the money is because they're usually thinking, I don't know whether I can actually do this. And that would be the little quiet, you know, I guess, where I would be exploring first of all. And you know, like you say, they may not be ready, they might just not be at that point where they're like, okay, I've tried everything. I've done it on my own. I'm at that point where I know if I just keep going inside my own echo chamber doing, approaching things the same way I've been doing, you know, trying new stuff, but you're still inside that same context and that same view and, and taking those actions that are automatic to you. You know, you're just going to keep getting the same results. There comes a point in time where someone is ready because they're like, right, I've tried that and I know that it's not working, but sometimes people need to try it themselves for however long. Yeah, everyone's different.
Jessica Osborn [00:32:35]:
Some people will try for themselves for years and think that they can, they can DIY or no, snap little pieces of together from here and there and, and figure it out. And you know, there are some people very stubbornly wanting to do that. And I'm like, well, that's okay. And everyone's different.
Andy Hart [00:32:53]:
You Know, and I, I am such a student of Russell Brunson. I really love learning from him. I mean, I think he's a marketing genius. But one of the things that he does, he really does not talk about features and, you know, all these things of what you get. It's his thing selling for him is all about the mindset.
Jessica Osborn [00:33:11]:
Yeah.
Andy Hart [00:33:11]:
And that is something that I was never really taught in corporate America. Like I am. Yeah. We used to call it in the tech world, like speeds and feeds. Right. Which is so, like such a snooze fest for me. So. Yeah.
Andy Hart [00:33:30]:
But one of the things that he. You just hit the nail on the head because one of the things he talks about the three shifts that you have to get a customer to believe, and the first one is what you're currently doing is not working. You know, the second one is that you can do it and how many times, especially us women entrepreneurs. And I hate to, you know, paint this women across the board, but I think we struggle with it more is imposter syndrome, but you can do it. And then the third shift that he really talks about is, here's the vehicle of how you do it. My solution works. And so obviously, obviously there's a lot more strategy into it, but those are the three big shifts that every presentation you watch him give, he walks someone through those shifts. Whether you realize he's doing it or not.
Jessica Osborn [00:34:22]:
Yeah, exactly. And I think that's so important. Like how many women would sit there and say, well, I can see other people are doing it and that's fine for them because of blah, blah, blah, but it's not possible for me. And it's like we have such a, a lack of self belief. I know I'm generalizing as, you know.
Andy Hart [00:34:39]:
Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:34:40]:
All women. But it's so curious because I think that it's so much more widespread than what we realize, because we all think it's just us that don't believe in ourselves. And I know, I've told people that myself and they look at me and go, you can't be serious. Like, of course you're so confident. You know, of course you believe in yourself. And I'm like, no, I have the same doubts that, that you do. Like, I work on them, you know, And I think everyone, it's so curious because we don't talk about it. Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:35:10]:
There's just all this internal dialogue that that's going on and no one realizes everyone else is going through the same stuff. Everyone's just looking out there going, oh, but you know, that's fine for all of them. Look at them that, you know, they've got all of this experience. You know, people would say to me, well, you've got 20 years of marketing experience. Of course it's easy for you. And I'm like, yeah, I know, but it's always different. And it's different when it's your own business versus, yeah. Company and you know, brands you're creating.
Jessica Osborn [00:35:37]:
Because it's not personal, then like, this is personal. I go through the same things you do. Yes. I have benefits of having done a lot of this stuff before and you know, of course there are benefits there, but it doesn't mean that the, the mindset piece is any easier, you know. Yeah, much self doubt. So do you have any tips for someone who goes, I understand all of this and these are really great points, but every time I get into a sales situation, I just feel anxious. How do you overcome the anxiety?
Andy Hart [00:36:08]:
This is my like number one tip is I always say this is, it's takes, it just takes 10 seconds of courage. 10 seconds of courage. And I say it because it's like, you know, going to, you know, anyone can be a good salesperson, but it's like going to a gym them and that, you know, you have to work those muscles out and exercise them to get good at what you're doing. And so the more repetitions that you can get in, the better you're gonna be. Right. And so always just tell someone, you know, whether it's you're pitching something, you're going into a store to pitch your products to a retailer, or you're, you know, gonna send an email, whatever that is. 10 seconds. Courage.
Andy Hart [00:36:55]:
You can do anything for 10 seconds. And so I think just having that mindset of, you know, I heard someone say recently in the morning when you like, don't want to get out of bed, but you just need to do it, you just say like, just do it, just do it, just do it, just do it. And I did that to myself this morning and I was like, wow, that really worked. Like, and so I think, you know, it sounds so simple, but okay, I can do anything for 10 seconds. Like, I can talk about my product for 10 seconds.
Jessica Osborn [00:37:23]:
Yeah. And like, you mentioned something just before. I'm like, yeah, we, you don't have to be an expert at it straight away. Like, you know, you worked at it. We've, there's the time, there's the reps, and, and so I think there's this also maybe this feeling of like, oh, I went on a Sales call. And it was terrible. So I'm no good at sales. And like, we're very absolute in our, you know, identity of like, I'm good at this or I'm not good.
Jessica Osborn [00:37:51]:
And it's like, just allow yourself to be a beginner, allow yourself to be a learner and, and be okay with that. Because the more you're going into that call being a nervous Nelly and, and thinking, I've got to make this perfect and it's all on me and, you know, all of this stuff and like, thinking, well, actually, the other person's probably going to be more nervous. They're the person who's needing help, wanting help. They're on the call thinking, am I going to buy from this person or not? And I think for me, when I remember back, because I was the worst when I started out in this business, you will laugh because. And I've told this story before, anyone who's listening knows that I think definitely happened multiple times. My first sales calls, I didn't even say the price on the call. I was so nervous I would get to the point they were interested and I go, I'll email it to you. Email them what the offer was.
Jessica Osborn [00:38:45]:
And I'd get off the call as fast as I could. I never even got the chance to have the discussion about what they thought or not. Like, I was atrocious. Terrible, terrible, terrible. And one of the things I think that helped me was that changing the thought that that other person's probably more nervous than you, so get on and be there for them. That helped me to shift into being in a different place. Place. But I think as well, you know, it's like thinking it's okay to be newer at selling and to then still have that belief and confidence in your product.
Jessica Osborn [00:39:20]:
Like, it doesn't have to go perfectly. You will. I. I mean, I made sales, ironically, with telling no one the price on the call. Some of them did actually convert, so I must have done okay. Like, it was far from perfect. But they did sign up, so it is possible. You don't have to be perfect.
Jessica Osborn [00:39:38]:
You can just be you. And if I can share one story, because I think it came up and I'm like, I haven't even thought about that for so long. But back in my early years, I had a job, weirdly, I got hired as a pa. They knew that I was going to be a terrible pa, but they moved me into the marketing team anyway. So I was in marketing, which is where I wanted to be. And then they said, oh, can you do some sales tours. So I work for the sales. This hotel company.
Jessica Osborn [00:40:04]:
And the salesperson would take corporate clients on tours to kind of get them to sign up on a, on a deal. And I'm like, sure, I can do a tour, thinking, I've got no idea what I'm doing, but I'll walk down. And I'd show them around. And I think I was just really honest because I had zero training. I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing. And they would, they were started signing up these corporate clients. I was taking on tours were signing up. And I'm thinking, okay, well, I was telling them like my honest opinion about the rooms and what, that, you know, how it was going to work and everything.
Jessica Osborn [00:40:35]:
And I wasn't doing any sort of sales tactics. I was literally just telling them from my heart the honest truth. And. And then I look back and go, well, that probably was what was working. And because I wasn't so worried about it. I wasn't in my head about doing all of these different tactics. It was okay that I was new and a beginner. You know, someone's not really.
Jessica Osborn [00:40:58]:
They're not judging you. They're just like, is this what we want or not? Yeah, do I want to have this engagement? So if you're not selling sales, if you're selling something else in your business, no one's really judging you as a salesperson. When you're having that sales call, they're listening for like, yes, no. What I need them to know, are they going to be the right guy? Do they have the right solution for me? And so that's far more important to them than. Than how the call's going a hundred percent.
Andy Hart [00:41:31]:
And people love just to have a real conversation. I can't tell you how many sales calls I've been on where we ended up not talking about anything business. You know, we just, you know, shot the breeze. Right. But being such a good relationship builder that we had such a solid business relationship up from that because I sought to get to know them and just be real. And so sometimes that can be worth so much more than like just hurrying up and getting down to business, you know, just to be real and authentic. And I think you just articulated that so well.
Jessica Osborn [00:42:12]:
Yeah, yeah, it was. It's so I think once you kind of remove that, you know, I know it's easier to said than done, but remove the anxiety of it and actually just sort of be excited, think, yeah, they want to talk to me, this is cool. And you know, they may buy. They May not buy. I'm going to detach from that outcome because you've got no control over it. You literally don't have any control over their decision. All you can do is go. All I can be there is share the information that they need, listen to them.
Jessica Osborn [00:42:42]:
Like you said, I think one of those huge shifts is actually asking questions and listening more than talking. That was also one of my big mistakes when I used to just non stop talking and the poor person would get their ear chewed off. So stop talking. That's my, my tip. And I'd love to hear if you've got any other common, you know, what are people commonly doing that's sort of like a. Okay, just these few tips. If you think about them, it'll help you to be less anxious and it'll actually help you have a better, better experience.
Andy Hart [00:43:14]:
Yeah, I think, you know, one of the biggest mistakes that I made early on in my career is trying to mimic someone else that I saw was being successful. And there's some good and some bad to that. You know, there's always some good takeaways. But I don't have to be like that person. God did not give me the same personality as that person. And I need to be who God made me to be and be my authentic self and show up who Andy is and not try to be that next person. Because if I'm trying to be exactly who they are in a sales meeting, then I'm not showing up real and customers see straight through that. And so I would just say relax, you know, like I said, 10 seconds of courage and just show up just authentically you.
Andy Hart [00:44:14]:
And as you said, just take a deep breath and just show up ready with a mindset to serve and to provide value and to listen. And you will learn. If you seek to understand first, you will start to learn and hear things over time that you will become an amazing salesperson in your own right. You don't have to be the most outgoing person to be a great salesperson, you know, so just be authentically you.
Jessica Osborn [00:44:47]:
Yeah. And I think, you know, you said give value and this is another, I think little trap that I definitely got stuck in for a while at the beginning when I was giving value, I was literally solving their problems on the sales call. Like before they've signed up. I was giving so much advice and, and all of that. And then they probably went away thinking, I've got everything I need. Great. So, you know, value actually doesn't mean that you have to solve the solutions on the call. Like giving value Right.
Jessica Osborn [00:45:15]:
When you are listening to them and you're kind of showing them that, hey, here's a solution and here's why it will work for you. And, and making that feel possible, that is value. Because before they get on the call, they don't have a solution. They don't know how to get there. Because if they did know, they would have done it themselves already. Right. So I think sometimes we people and curious to hear what else you think around that. But so often I think you know your stuff so well that you not even realizing that it's valuable for somebody to even become aware that this is the right solution, like that is of value to them.
Jessica Osborn [00:45:56]:
And for you, you're like, well, you're already like 10 miles past that. So, yeah, bring yourself back to where they are in the place where they haven't solved the problem yet. It's frustrating and they've probably tried lots of things and they're thinking, I don't know, is this going to be the right thing? Like actually knowing that this is going to be the right thing for them as long as it is the right fit, that is of incredible value. So, you know, that is the value that you're giving on the call is helping someone.
Andy Hart [00:46:23]:
Yeah, I, I think you just hit the nail on the head. And the thing that I, has taken me probably a year and a half to learn and as an entrepreneur that is different than selling in a boardroom, you know, one to one or face to face with, with a CEO, is that when I am selling online and selling a course or, you know, whatever, whatever it is that I'm selling, that there's a fine line, I think, between overselling or over delivering value and, and really delivering, you know, value or not delivering value at all, I should say. And I have seen some workshops that I have been on and they will. I'm thinking of one content creator in particular and she's like, no, you never give any tips. Like, you never give any tips because you're giving away your content. And I'm, I struggle with that because I'm like, every time I'm on a workshop, I get on a workshop with you. I'm like, you really don't give any tips. But what she does really well.
Jessica Osborn [00:47:29]:
Yeah.
Andy Hart [00:47:30]:
Is she convinces you that you are wildly capable of achieving your goals and achieving what she's going to teach you if you buy her course.
Jessica Osborn [00:47:42]:
Yeah.
Andy Hart [00:47:43]:
Do you know what I mean? And so that, that is the difference in that. I, I now I think that there is a happy medium there. I think that you can give some value. Right. But I, I think that part of that immense value, especially you know, when, once again, be careful of saying us as women, but if your target audience, whether, you know, whether it's men or women, but is to convince us as just human beings that we are capable because we innately, you know, just often don't believe in ourselves, you know, and so that is of huge value. There is just to say, I've been where you are. I struggled to believe it was possible and here I am. And guess what? You can do it too.
Andy Hart [00:48:31]:
And I have the framework, so.
Jessica Osborn [00:48:34]:
Yeah, exactly. And that's so interesting because yes, you do get the two camps, like the people who say, give, give all the value. And, and I'm like, yes, but you know, there's a certain type of value that you want to give that does, does allow them to move into a different place, but you're not actually giving them the whole meal because otherwise they have no reason to buy from you. And I think there is a really subtle one. Maybe it's not even that subtle. There is a definite difference between that and I used to do, obviously, the over giving and over sharing. I'm really, it's hard because I'm like, I get so excited and I want to teach people things and share everything I know. And you know, it's, it's funny because people will go, oh, that's all I need to know.
Jessica Osborn [00:49:20]:
And I'm like, oh my God. But there's so much more that I haven't shared with you. But, but because I have that depth and maybe they're like, well, that's enough for me right now. You know, it's really finding where is that line for you? And actually making them aware of how much more there is that they don't have. And I think that's one of the things that, you know, you can kind of think, how can I share something that's of value? So they're excited experiencing it and they're getting that value, but that they're also aware and now they're hungry for all the stuff you haven't shared. And I think the mistake I might have made previously was not actually giving them any of those signals of what else there it still is. Like, they probably thought they had the whole meal. They didn't realize it was just the entree.
Andy Hart [00:50:03]:
I've been guilty of both, like, I have done both of like over delivering and, you know, not telling them you have so much more to learn. And then I have been guilty of not delivering Enough value because I did the opposite and I over delivered the last time, you know, and so, yeah, I had to learn from both of those mistakes. And they're both painful mistakes to learn from. But that's part, that's part of the selling journey is that, you know, back to our, our comment earlier is that you're gonna make those mistakes. And oh, Jessica, if I had a blooper reel of all the silly mistakes I have made in my sales journey, I mean, we would be here all night. So I say all that to say is that you're going to make mistakes and that's okay. Learn from them, you know?
Jessica Osborn [00:50:51]:
Yeah, that's so true. And it's, and it's okay. Like, I think just go tell yourself that. Go. You know what? I'm gonna stuff it up. I'm gonna make mistake. And if the world is not going to end, my business isn't going to fail because of it. It's just you're going to carry on and you're going to learn from it and you probably won't make that mistake again.
Jessica Osborn [00:51:09]:
And like you said, you know, it's about the reps. Like, the more often you do it, the easier it's going to get and the more natural it'll feel because you're like, okay, I'm here in the, in the seat that I've been in before and I know you know what I want to do. I know what I'm not. And you, you're much more used to it, right? What do you like, is there anything that you can do that you think a lot of people. It's like. Actually, what I wanted to say was we've talked about a lot of tips. Are there. Do you have sort of like a top list or five or anything that you like? I know that you've got to experience some of these things and you can definitely go back and re listen to this episode because there's so much that you've shared in here of like, you know, things that you can remember or think about doing and adopt anything that you feel like we've missed out.
Jessica Osborn [00:52:00]:
That's like a really obvious maybe mistake people are making or something that you can do that can make a big difference for you.
Andy Hart [00:52:08]:
Oh, I would say probably. Well, I have two. Two more, I would say, and I'll just hit on these really quickly. But one is letting perfectionism stop you from just getting out there. And I say that because I am a recovering perfectionist and I see that so often. And so don't wait for perfect I always say, done, it's perfect. So that is another huge mistake that I see. People will hold them back.
Andy Hart [00:52:40]:
They'll try to wait for to have the perfect offer, the perfect product before they start selling. Listen, feedback from customers is one of the best things you can get to continue to refine your product offering. The second thing is the lack of follow up because so often I saw a stat not too long ago that 90% of people will send one email or, you know, one pitch or one, you know, sales email and then they'll never follow up again. And so you can set yourself apart in the top 10% just by following up, whether it's, you know, a high ticket client or what have you. And so I think, you know, along with that, whether it's following up or just being consistent in your sales efforts.
Jessica Osborn [00:53:32]:
Yeah, yeah.
Andy Hart [00:53:33]:
Matters so much.
Jessica Osborn [00:53:35]:
Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, the follow up, it's such a good point because usually you're not, because you think, well, they'll get back to me. You know, you might have left something at the bottom of the email that says do you have any questions or you know, and expecting them to take that next step. And, and this is a conversation I've had so many times with clients because I totally agree and I used to make that mistake too of not following up. And I'm like, you're helping them out by sending a follow up email and you know, especially if the first one has been quite long and it's included, you know, a recap of maybe what you spoke about on the phone or it's got all the information, there's a lot to process and digest in there. And so usually my follow up is really short. It's like, hey, just checking in with you, do you have a question or a concern that I can help you out with? And often that is all that's needed is just I'm asking, do you have a question? Like you don't need to do anything more. Any, you know, it's, it's literally I'm here to answer your question.
Jessica Osborn [00:54:35]:
And so often they come back and go, yeah, actually I do have a question. And it's just opening that door to say, you know, I know that we had that whole discussion. I don't know why people don't just ask the question. But it's so curious, right? Like, like how often that simple, hey, do you have a question that I can help you with?
Andy Hart [00:54:53]:
Opening the door.
Jessica Osborn [00:54:54]:
Yeah, to the question. And, and sometimes they're waiting for that invite. So like you said, yeah, so simple. And I don't know why we don't do it. It's almost like you feel like you're annoying them or badgering them. Whereas maybe now you can think, oh, actually they're just waiting for an invitation. Yeah. The question that they've got, that's the only reason why they're stalling, you know.
Andy Hart [00:55:18]:
In my candle company and you know, pitching my products to retailers. I cannot tell you how many retailers I have had when I followed up with them that have actually thanked me for following up. So if that tells you that follow up is actually a service to your clients, to your customers, it's actually just like you said, a reminder. They, they so often will go, oh my goodness, thank you so much for following up. I had every intention of placing an order with you and I got sidetracked and I'm so glad you emailed me. Yeah, I missed out on a thousand dollar order, you know. Yeah, so.
Jessica Osborn [00:55:57]:
And they're missing out as well. It's like, don't make them go searching through their inbox trying to find the email. Like, you know, everybody's busy. There's a million reasons why they may not have replied or may not have had done it at the time. Because, you know, you just have to say, well, what do you think could have happened? You know, when they got your email, where might they have been? You're like, oh, yeah, they could have been driving in the car, they might have been making dinner, maybe their kids. Suddenly something happened and you know, the, the world shifted into a whole different place. And then, and you're thinking, oh, it's because they didn't like it. It's like, that's probably one of about 100 different reasons why it may have happened.
Andy Hart [00:56:35]:
And when you think of like, oh, I missed out on a thousand dollar sale because I didn't want to feel pushy, like it sounds so ridiculous. So follow up, follow up.
Jessica Osborn [00:56:46]:
Yeah, exactly. And it is totally different. You know, people are like, oh, I get these follow ups. People who are following up from a, you know, they've done a cold pitch to you and then they were like in your inbox going, hey, I haven't heard from you. Hell, you know, that is very different to you following up, up from a conversation you've already had, someone who's interested, you've sent the details through. Totally different type of follow up. So I just want to put those in completely different boxes. You will not be the same as those people who are pestering you because you haven't replied to their Their cold pitch.
Jessica Osborn [00:57:18]:
You are, you're actually just. Yeah. Helping them.
Andy Hart [00:57:21]:
Well, you can still follow up on a cold pitch but you know, maybe not say I haven't heard from you. Like, okay, like there's a good way to follow up to like you know, a, a cold pitch. And I, I even always say, even sending like, I do not like sending like mass cold pitches. You know, I always teach my, my wholesale students how to send like a personal, you know, individual email pitch to a retailer and then how to follow up that feels warm, you know, and not, you know, because we've all gotten those like cold follow ups. So yeah, to your point, like there is a way to follow up that doesn't feel cringy, you know.
Jessica Osborn [00:58:01]:
Yeah, absolutely. I love it. You have shared so many amazing points of value. Andy, this has been such an incredible discussion. I think an important one because I know how awkward sales used to feel for me even though I'd kind of, you know, as I said, I'm like, yeah, I had a little time of doing sales and realized that I was successful at it weirdly. But then, you know, many, many years passed and before I was doing it in this business and it does, it does not feel natural. You've said you had to work at it. You spent a long time training and getting comfortable and now you have, you know, so much experience to share with people.
Jessica Osborn [00:58:40]:
Do you have, you know, where can people reach out to you? Where can they follow you?
Andy Hart [00:58:46]:
Yes. Thanks for asking. So I have a website, it's andyheart.com my name is spelled a little different. It's a N D E E H A R T And you can find me also at that same Andy Hart on Instagram and Facebook. And then I also gave you a link to a amazing tool that I have that are just some tried and true helpful sales tools that I have used in my business both for service based business sales tools and product based sales tools. So whatever you are selling, if you need help, these are just some helpful tools. So you can grab that link in the show notes.
Jessica Osborn [00:59:30]:
Amazing. What can you give us a, an example of a kind of tool that they are. Yeah, yeah.
Andy Hart [00:59:37]:
So one of my favorite tools, some of you guys may have heard of it that I love to use is a sales tool called Convert Box. Have you heard of Convert Box? But tell us so it is a pop up tool for different websites. You can use it on Shopify, you can use it on your website, but you it's a plugin. And what is really cool about this is that you can target your audience for them to see specific offers that you have based on your, your different segmentations. So maybe they've already bought a course from you. You don't want to target them with that course again, you want to target them maybe with a complimentary product. And so you can actually target them with you know, an embed in your, in your Shopify site or in your, your website or wherever or a pop up or even like you know, at the top. So there's lots of different things.
Andy Hart [01:00:44]:
But then what is also cool is you know, you can create trip wires with that as well. So it's all based on audience segmentation. And so that kind of goes back to knowing your audience and you know, not selling them something they've already bought but making it valuable for them. So that's one of the tools that I have in there that I love.
Jessica Osborn [01:01:03]:
I love it. That's so cool. And so you could. Because I think also it's like about that relevance and it sounds so clever that they already know what that customer's bought. So you'd be able to suggest a product that you think would be the next step or complimentary, like an obvious next step for that person to buy a related product. Obviously if you have product based purchases or you know, if it's like this course. Well if you've got that one then the next one would be whatever it is. Yeah.
Andy Hart [01:01:35]:
And no matter what you're selling, you know, like I said, products or services, it doesn't matter. I really use it in my service based business and so it's just a really cool tool and it's a lifetime fee. It's not a, it's not a subscription product which I love.
Jessica Osborn [01:01:51]:
So good. Yeah, I am all about the lifetime. Get as many of those as possible.
Andy Hart [01:01:57]:
Amen.
Jessica Osborn [01:01:58]:
I love it. So great. So you put together a list of your favorite ones and you can download that from Andy's website. I've got the link in the show notes. Amazing. Thank you Andy. Because you know. Yes, that's just one.
Jessica Osborn [01:02:12]:
I'm like, I didn't even know that existed. So I'm sure there's going to be some other gold in there, some really cool tools that, that can help, you know, just sort of, I guess it takes what you have already and makes it easier for someone to buy from you. You kind of like, hey, here's this thing. They don't have to find it in your website some other way. You're kind of enabling it to be presented to them up front which is absolutely going to help. Convenience. Yeah.
Andy Hart [01:02:39]:
Makes doing business easy with you for sure.
Jessica Osborn [01:02:42]:
Love it. Thank you so much for your time Andy and I will I've got Ollie her links in the show notes so if you want to reach out on the social media and follow Andy please do so. And Andy, you we haven't even mentioned your podcast. Do you have a podcast.
Andy Hart [01:03:03]:
She sells differently because as I have mentioned throughout the the episode I love teaching how to sell different differently than what you know culture often tells us we should look like when we sell and so yes she sells differently. You can listen on your favorite podcast platform.
Jessica Osborn [01:03:21]:
Yeah love it. So that will be linked up as well. So yeah if you've loved listening to Andy then hop along and check out some of her episodes on her podcast. Make sure you subscribe and yeah thank you so much Andy for joining us today.
Andy Hart [01:03:35]:
Yeah thanks for having me Jessica.
